Kwikstage scaffolding questions

[Vijay]

I'm still in two minds whether to use a normal scaffold company or get kwickstage and DIY.  Price wise I'm still to get a final price off my favoured local scaffold guy but his partners price came in at £8.5 and that was for as long as I needed it (years lol which he is aware of). Only one company who quoted my on Kwikstage (and could not say if I wouldn't need more) came in at £13k inc VAT (that price was 2 years ago so has probably changed). 

 

I'm wondering if I could pick peoples brains about Kwikstage scaffolding and whether any users have any regrets about using it? 2 forum members have shared their thoughts about it and the thing I get is not to underestimate how heavy they can soon become when putting it up, down and moving it around.

 

I have a few questions about the system if anyone can help?

 

1. Are there standard width(ledger) sizes to use, say 2.4m?

 

2. I looked at images on Google and some diagrams do not list "transoms". Are these used on all ends to hold the scaffolding together and "return transoms" for where you basically turn the scaffold 90 degrees?

 

3. What do you do when your corner isn't 90 degrees?

 

4. Is there a standard width of scaffold to go for, 1.2m?

 

5. How do I know how much diagonal bracing I need?

 

6. Do you use outriggers at all anywhere?

 

7. Do you just use a ledger as a handrail?

 

8. What is the point of toe boards, do they stop people/tools from slipping through the bottom gap?

 

9. How stable is kwikstage when going to 2nd and third storey heights as I have some chimney breasts to do.

 

10. Is there any issue with trades working on it? I would want to cut any corners on safety!!

 

11. I've got a couple of places where I will need to bridge over a single storey porch and external fireplace on the second lift, how is that done?

 

12. Lastly, how much of the purchase price could I expect to get back when I'm ready to sell?

 

Sorry for all the questions but I've never seen the stuff let alone used it. I just want to try and work out the minimum I would need so I can decide which way to go.

 

Vijay

 

 

 

[ProDave]

Standard length of each section is 2.4M (8ft) though you can get 6ft (whatever that is in metric) lengths as well though less common.

 

Standard width is 5 boards which is 1.2M / 4ft but you can get narrow 3 board wide transoms handy if you have to scaffold in a narrow gap.

 

Make sure you get enough diagonal braces

 

I put a "bracing tower" to stabilise a tall lift.

 

The big question is will your builders work on "your" scaffold. In my case the answer was yes. As it happened I did not have enough so 3 sides of the house were done with my own, and the 4th with the builders (cuplock) scaffold.

 

I got back just about what I paid.  I did lose some planks as they rotted due to bad storage.

 

Yes it is heavy. It can be hard work putting it up, take your time,  This was a days work for the pair of us:

 

Toe boards are to stop stuff rolling off and falling on someone, obviously in this photo they have not been fitted yet. 

 

[ToughButterCup]

28 minutes ago, Vijay said:

I'm still in two minds whether to use a normal scaffold company or get kwickstage and DIY. [...]

 

Just buy it and sell it on later. The business case for any reputable DIY scaffold is compelling

All of your questions are  very reasonable. Debbie will be the first to tell you that its our best investment in a tool - up there with a digger.

Get the Kwikstage company to design the scaffold for you.

 

In terms of using the stuff, like everyone else, we took it slowly at first, and within a week we were at the top of the third lift feeling completely confident .

Yes, its hard work, but I took it as an opportunity to get a bit of resistance training in. 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

@ProDave and @recoveringacademic

 

As Kwik stage users what do you think of this plan?

 

My diyMax self build is likely to be slow and I have been toying with the following plan for scaffolding.

 

1. Buy enough staging for my garage 7.2m x 5.6m and high enough for roofing of the single story garage.

2. Use the same scaffolding on the main house to get up to first floor joist height moving it as necessary around the larger perimeter of the house.

3. Get pro scaffolding company in for a short term rental as the main house build proceeds from 2.4m high to gutter height.

 

The two story perimeter of my house is 40m. 

[Declan52]

1. Most common size is 8ft long.  You can get 4ft and 6ft also. 

2. Transoms are just the part the plank sits on.  They are and upside T so the plank sits in the web. 

3. You start another run and tie both parts together using small sections of round bar and clamps.  Then overlap planks from one side to the other to bridge the gap. 

4. 4ft is the most common width but you can get narrower trannies if  access for example is an issue. 

5. You need a diagonal in on every lift in height.  Depending on how long the run is you might need 2 spaced apart. 

6. You don't usually use these as the scaffold gets tied to the building via  Window openings.  But I like to wedge planks to stop the  wobble.  If it's really long 20m+ then you could set up a bay to use as a loading area. 

7. Yes

8. Stops  bricks and tools falling off when they get dropped or kicked and hitting those below,  important bit. 

9. As long as you have the diagonal bars in that height isn't an issue.  It will still wobble a bit but you get used to it. 8 stories high is my highest in  kwickstage and it was fine. 

10. Only issue is every trade needs it at different heights so will take bars out to suit them and they never put them back. Will be your job if diy to go round and check they haven't took the handrails of and left an opening you can fall  through. 

11. You can either use 21 ft round bars if this is long enough or steel ladders that have round bars that scaffold clamps clamp to.  Or you leave the roof of the porch and put a standard on the floor and continue the run as normal.  Strip the scaffold and then finish the porch. Need to put a pic up to see what you mean about the fire place. 

12. You will recover the vast majority of what you spent. 

 

 

Don't under estimate how heavy and time consuming it will seem at the start.  But the muscles will grow  and you will get quicker. 

Planks and ice don't go well together so if you're doing this in the winter just be careful. 

Wear gloves  and when you are  removing planks to either lift or lower a run a hat and goggles.  The dust and dirt that will fall on you is unreal. 

Be realistic its a 2 man job till you get it figured out. 

[ProDave]

Perimiter of 40M is not that great, at a guess (I bet is is not a 10M per side square) that would be 6 lengths along 2 sides and 3 lengths on the other 2, so 18 bays of scaffold.  I had 5 bays along the front and back and 3 bays along the sides though not as high perhaps.

 

I would just buy enough and re sell at the end.  Though I did choose to keep some, what is in my picture above is almost all that I have left now though I do have a lot more boards than I used for that.

[Declan52]

4 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

@ProDave and @recoveringacademic

 

As Kwik stage users what do you think of this plan?

 

My diyMax self build is likely to be slow and I have been toying with the following plan for scaffolding.

 

1. Buy enough staging for my garage 7.2m x 5.6m and high enough for roofing of the single story garage.

2. Use the same scaffolding on the main house to get up to first floor joist height moving it as necessary around the larger perimeter of the house.

3. Get pro scaffolding company in for a short term rental as the main house build proceeds from 2.4m high to gutter height.

 

The two story perimeter of my house is 40m. 

Trestle and planks will get you to  first floor height. 

Is your brickies going to build over hand??  Do they need a full scaffold to work of or is it just for safety and jointing up. 

How are you going to load the materials onto the first floor,  telehandler or digger??? 

Trestle and planks to get you to first floor height.  Get it scaffolded and built and roof on as  quick as possible.  Maybe 4-5 weeks worth of hire if you have everything there and truss ordered up and the weather is kind. 

[ToughButterCup]

11 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

[...]

My diyMax self build is likely to be slow

[...]

 

That's it, right there. 

You don't need to say anything else. Unless you can get one of those £xxx fixed deals over n years. But they are only given to mates (they often went to school with) round here.

 

11 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

[...] 

But the muscles will grow  and you will get quicker.

[...]

 

@Declan52's bang on there.

Should see my rippling six pack and biceps now! All the girls flock round when I go to the pub now.

'Get yer pecks out then ....'

[Declan52]

4 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

That's it, right there. 

You don't need to say anything else. Unless you can get one of those £xxx fixed deals over n years. But they are only given to mates (they often went to school with) round here.

 

 

@Declan52's bang on there.

Should see my rippling six pack and biceps now! All the girls flock round when I go to the pub now.

'Get yer pecks out then ....'

Am sure Debbie is pleased!!! 

[epsilonGreedy]

6 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

How are you going to load the materials onto the first floor,  telehandler or digger??? 

 

 

The two man pro brickie team who built my neighbour's 1700 sq ft house last year used a little pulley and attached a rope to the handle of a 6 brick lifting clamp. If I can work as fast as them I would be happy. Oddly the whole house scaffolding included an extra platform which was intended for a telehandler to reach.

[Declan52]

Or buy a hod and do it that way. Can get 12 in them each lift. 

[ToughButterCup]

If you are doing the pulling, get a BRAKED pulley, @epsilonGreedy.

Debbie had to haul hundreds of DURISOL blocks up to the third lift. Bless her, she wouldn't give in: on the odd occasion the brake in the pulley saved her. And me - from a lot of form filling.

 

Mind you when the rope was wet and there was 25kg of concrete in the container being lifted, despite the brake, it did go back down again quite smartly.

 

Still wince at the memory. 

[Vijay]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

Standard length of each section is 2.4M (8ft) though you can get 6ft (whatever that is in metric) lengths as well though less common.

 

Standard width is 5 boards which is 1.2M / 4ft but you can get narrow 3 board wide transoms handy if you have to scaffold in a narrow gap.

 

Make sure you get enough diagonal braces

 

I put a "bracing tower" to stabilise a tall lift.

 

The big question is will your builders work on "your" scaffold. In my case the answer was yes. As it happened I did not have enough so 3 sides of the house were done with my own, and the 4th with the builders (cuplock) scaffold.

 

I got back just about what I paid.  I did lose some planks as they rotted due to bad storage.

 

Yes it is heavy. It can be hard work putting it up, take your time,  This was a days work for the pair of us:

 

Toe boards are to stop stuff rolling off and falling on someone, obviously in this photo they have not been fitted yet. 

 

 

When it comes to the diaganol bracing, how do I know how much is needed?

 

I like the idea of the bracing tower to support a tall lift

 

I'm the builder so that's a yes lol but I don't know what I'll be doing about the roof when I'm at that stage, so no way of knowing if any future trades will be ok with it

 

So toe boards on Kwikstage don't have anything to do with rigidity at all?

[Vijay]

4 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

Just buy it and sell it on later. The business case for any reputable DIY scaffold is compelling

All of your questions are  very reasonable. Debbie will be the first to tell you that its our best investment in a tool - up there with a digger.

Get the Kwikstage company to design the scaffold for you.

 

In terms of using the stuff, like everyone else, we took it slowly at first, and within a week we were at the top of the third lift feeling completely confident .

Yes, its hard work, but I took it as an opportunity to get a bit of resistance training in. 

 

 

I'm impressed  

 

Only had one company who would quote and even with a drawing couldn't tell me if they had quoted for enough

 

Not overly worried about the hard work, but more about not trying to take on every single job (which I have done so far) and also don't want any back issues

[ProDave]

Someone else said one brace per level possibly two.  for me it was  a case of how many have I got? and spread them about evenly.

 

No the toe boards are not about rigidity but safety.

 

And on the working platforms, you should have two handrails, one on the lower set of pegs as well, another thing I did after I took the photo. 

[Vijay]

4 hours ago, Declan52 said:

2. Transoms are just the part the plank sits on.  They are and upside T so the plank sits in the web.

 

3. You start another run and tie both parts together using small sections of round bar and clamps.  Then overlap planks from one side to the other to bridge the gap. 

 

5. You need a diagonal in on every lift in height.  Depending on how long the run is you might need 2 spaced apart. 

 

11. You can either use 21 ft round bars if this is long enough or steel ladders that have round bars that scaffold clamps clamp to.  Or you leave the roof of the porch and put a standard on the floor and continue the run as normal.  Strip the scaffold and then finish the porch. Need to put a pic up to see what you mean about the fire place. 

 

Thanks Declan

 

2. Are return transoms the correct/only way of doing a 90 degree return?

 

3 - Do you by any chance have a pic of that?

 

5 - My build has a lot in internal/external corners so lengths are kind of staggered (if that makes sense?), so I can't get my head around how I know how much bracing I might need. Is the bracing specific Kwikstage products or normal scaffold tube/fixings?

 

11 - I'll post up some pics to show what I mean

[Vijay]

Just found this useful guide http://www.barrattcommercialsupport.co.uk/uploads/appendix-20---kwikstage-user-guide.pdf

[Declan52]

Using daves pic as an example he should have used  3 diagonal bars in where I have the pink lines.  Nothing wrong with how he has done it as  he says he only had a few so used 2 for the centre bay to stop it wobbling about.  One he has used in the correct way to stop the wobble as shown by the green lines. 

He has also used 2 as outriggers shown in the blue arrows. 

But dave was the only person on that scaffold so no real need for  toe boards,  double ledgers for handrails and double trannies at the ends.  Strictly speaking he has took a risk but  everyone does it. I have been on some proper scary scaffolds in my time,  real sea leg type jobs. 

 

 

[ProDave]

The ones I use as "outriggers" are some leftovers that only have an intact peg on one end, so can't be used as a proper brace. I kept them when I sold most of the scaffold and use them like that with the "dud" end in the ground.  

[Declan52]

13 minutes ago, Vijay said:

Thanks Declan

 

2. Are return transoms the correct/only way of doing a 90 degree return?

 

3 - Do you by any chance have a pic of that?

 

5 - My build has a lot in internal/external corners so lengths are kind of staggered (if that makes sense?), so I can't get my head around how I know how much bracing I might need. Is the bracing specific Kwikstage products or normal scaffold tube/fixings?

 

11 - I'll post up some pics to show what I mean

On that pdf page 13 the pic on the left shows how you can do a corner.  If there is a gap then you can bridge it with planks.  It will just depend on the how your run works in in 8ft lengths.  The planks will cover the hole and you use 2 ledgers that will slot into a Standard on one side and use  clamps to tie it to the other run. 

Page 52 is about the diagonal bracing. So every 4 bays is a brace. 

They are a kwickstage bar.  They have a swivel type head as  sometimes they take a bit of wrestling to get the pin to line up. 

https://www.scaffoldingsupplies.co.uk/products/details/364.html

[Vijay]

Thanks so much Declan. I also found some more info on bay infills on page.15

[Vijay]

Here is a couple of pics that show what I mean about the porch and external fireplace. As I said these are single storey and I can't build them afterwards as it's all in ICF. I assume I need to use something like a bridging ledger?? 

[PeterW]

@Vijay it doesn’t matter how much Kwikstage you have, or what components, you’ll still want more.... bridging ledgers are ok but they bounce a lot ..! That chimney can be done by missing out the bottom ledgers and just use a cross brace and keep the bottoms together with that. 

[Vijay]

So I would use 2 diagonal braces to make a V?

[PeterW]

From memory there is a fitting on the side of the bridging ledger to take a cross brace but it’s been a while since I’ve seen one used - that chimney doesn’t  look wider than 8ft anyway ..??