Site security revisited

[TerryE]

I know this has been discussed in the past (e. g. site security - 3G wildlife cameras??, They try again how can we stop them), but I had a tradesman coming to quote for erecting a fence and he commented in passing that he'd just had about £5-8k worth of fencing materials stolen from his store, which got me thinking that this is a potential issues for all members here.  In his case, the thieves had accessed his site (which was secure from the road side) by a route over 3 fields and breeched the back fence. They made maybe 3 trips and had cleaned him out of his fencing stocks.  Having a row of Heras panels across any adjacent access onto the rode is no longer an effective counter-measure.  Apparently more sophisticated gangs are increasingly using Google Earth and drones to survey access to and contents of building and store sites.

 

I've used a wildlife camera in the past, and my son-in-law has couple of cameras linked to his own RPi-based home-automation system; he also uses wifi/bluetooth to detect the presence of known mobile phones in the house, so that if it is unoccupied, then any photos / video captured are sent off site and he also gets an SMS alert and preview.  I personally could build a similar ESP32-based system for off-site use.  A complication here would be if there wasn't power on site, and a RPi based system simply consumes too much power to use in this scenario unless fronted by something like an ESP32 or similar low power IoT processor and only powered up if an incident is occurring.  There are also loads of Zigbee and other low-powered battery based IoT sensors available.  However, integrating all of this requires quite a lot of knowledge and this is not something that an average self-builder or tradesman could undertake. 

 

So what are sensible objectives here: deterrence? detection and alarming? collection of data to aid prosecution? physical security?  What are members current thoughts and recommendations?

[Declan52]

Heras fencing is a 10 sec job to get past.  If some one is determined to get on to your site and steal things nothing will really stop them.  So being realistic  it's cameras and  site insurance to cover any losses. 

[joe90]

5 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

site insurance to cover any losses. 

 

And a flock of geese, noisy little buggers and they cannot be bribed like a guard dog.

 

we have not even installed a burglar alarm, my garage has a fake alarm box with flashing LED. Perhaps we are just lucky to have very little crime down here?.

Edited February 27, 2019 by joe90

[JanetE]

I think in this case maybe some camouflage netting would have hidden this from a flyover with a drone, as this seemed to me the way that the thieves recced out his store.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, TerryE said:

[...]

What are members current thoughts and recommendations?

 

Our son is a detective and his other half a CSI. Long chat about this two years ago: the stories his other half has to tell are guaranteed to gross you out within 2 minutes. 

 

Take all sensible precautions, but don't disappear up your own Botticelli. Photograph everything of value. Put all the images online and use them as a database for the insurance claim : if possible photograph the relevant invoice  too.

 

Cameras are sometimes useful, but no as much people (ie. his mum and dad)  think.

 

Get into good security habits: be aware , talk to those around you, watch one anothers' backs. 

Don't skimp on insurance: read the detail on the  policy.

 

If you see a robbery in progress, don't be a hero. Watch, photograph, attract attention if its safe to do so.

 

[TerryE]

I do think that whole Q of what you should be aiming as your goal here is relevant in terms of deterrence, detection, alarming, collection of data to aid prosecution and physical security.  I feel that most professional gangs / thieves are just that: professional, and as such act rationally within their own personal values / mores -- which admittedly might be very different to those of tradesmen and home owners, and hence their behaviours act out differently.  I feel that most thieves will act to maximise personal gain vs expected costs and risks.  So for example if they know that the site is covered by 3G cameras and invisible alarming then they might just decide to try elsewhere.  This is like the old joke about two men running from a marauding lion and one gasps: "why run: it's going to catch us!", and other replies "no, I only need to run faster than you". 

 

So anything you do that triggers the thought "nah, not worth the risk; let us do the site down the street instead" might be worthwhile.  So a couple of cameras with 3G aerials on top; motion activated sensors; etc.; having a standard shipping container or ½ container on-site with decent bolts.  This means that the thieves will need to carry high spec bolt croppers and / or cutting equipment and getting caught in possession will be treated as de facto proof of intent to burgle.  What sort of time response do you need to notify the police of an in-progress? if this is longer than the probable time to execute the theft then the putative thieves would mark this down as not worth the risk.

 

Another issue is that the audience for such measures isn't just the thieves; it's your insurers.  Most will require you to implement a reasonable level of care in protecting your goods and property.   Taking such steps could reduce your premiums and will reduce the risk of claims being challenged.

Edited February 27, 2019 by TerryE

[oranjeboom]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

 

we have not even installed a burglar alarm, my garage has a fake alarm box with flashing LED. Perhaps we are just lucky to have very little crime down here?.

And what's your address again? ?

[ToughButterCup]

31 minutes ago, TerryE said:

[...]

I feel that most thieves will act to maximise personal gain vs expected costs and risks.  So for example if they know that the site is covered by 3G cameras and invisible alarming then they might just decide to try elsewhere. 

[...]

So anything you do that triggers the thought "nah, not worth the risk; let us do the site down the street instead" might be worthwhile. 

[...]

Another issue is that the audience for such measures isn't just the thieves; it's your insurers. 

[...]

 

I thought that. Our tame CSI disagrees.  You expect people stupid enough to  engage in crime to think logically?

 

Insurers: Loss Adjusters are bastards. The one thing they cannot contradict is evidence:  database (list) of all valuables and original receipts 

[epsilonGreedy]

2 hours ago, TerryE said:

So what are sensible objectives here: deterrence? detection and alarming? collection of data to aid prosecution? physical security?  What are members current thoughts and recommendations?

 

 

I think you first have to quantify the risks.

 

Most discussions here focus on 3rd party liability due to members of the public entering your site and second, the risk of invited tradesmen trying to take advantage of a self builder. Theft is a distant 3rd of discussions here.

 

What gets stolen? I am told it is not heavy materials like bricks, sand and cement. Fancy tools are attractive but protecting these is not the role of boundary fencing. This leads me to conclude the largest material theft risk is when a house is not yet a lockable weather tight shell and there are valuable portable materials on site such as copper pipe, cable reels, a boiler or system hot water tank.