PeterW Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 It contains only 2-5 litres of water. The point of an LLH is to allow different flow levels through different parts of the system, not to act as a buffer store to stop short cycling. Oil boilers don’t modulate down enough to not short cycle at low heat demands. Your boiler is running at 65c pump speed 3, UFH needs 40c pump speed 2, therefore you need somewhere to balance that off hence the buffer. For an efficient burn on that boiler, and getting you mains pressure hot water, a TS would be my plan as it allows you over time to change out the components and add in whatever you need for heating. You can even blend at the TS itself and negate the need for a manifold blending unit, and your single pipe would still just go in and out of the TS as normal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Onoff said: It was @Nickfromwales suggested the llh. All lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, PeterW said: Your boiler is running at 65c pump speed 3, UFH needs 40c pump speed 2, therefore you need somewhere to balance that off hence the buffer. Boiler at pump speed 2 at the moment. Trying to get the differential up between flow and return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Hmmm...SWMBO thinks she saw water coming from the overflow earlier today. First told me it was yesterday! Don't think so luv the system was still in pieces! ? (Could I suppose have been the CWS...) One overflow visible externally that tees off to the F&E and CWS tanks. So which one was it? Hopefully not the CH pumping over into my nice clean header tank! Both ball valves recently renewed. Loft time again! Could it be to do with the fact I've turned the pump down to 2? Edited November 9, 2020 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 Up in the loft, balanced on a precarious wooden step ladder that came with the loft! All I can do is hold the phone above the rim at arms length. I can't actually get up there to peer in. Hoping against hope it's an illusion but that looks like rusty crap in the bottom from a pump over? Thinking to maybe lower the F&E tank level a tad? Going to try and get higher on the ladder whilst SWMBO holds the steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 Definitely some rusty crap in the bottom of the F&E tank. Now this tank was cleaned spotless and had the expansion pipe capped & the feed out turned off when I ran the PFM. So when I refilled the system it was fresh clean water that went into the system. This must have come up the expansion pipe. Is expansion "normal"? As in does it always happen? Maybe I just need to lower the tank level by adjusting the ball valves? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 tank only needs 6" water in when cold - just bend the arm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, PeterW said: tank only needs 6" water in when cold - just bend the arm. Will do. Trouble is I have to likely take it out to do so. Cramped is an understatement. Very wary too of bringing down the platform that both tanks sit on. Pallet wood sat on 3 cross members nailed to the rafters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: All lies My mistake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Yeh but that advice expired after 12 months...... ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 9 hours ago, PeterW said: Yeh but that advice expired after 12 months...... ? Damn! All those questions I need to ask again... ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 Bloody forum putting these new fangled TS ideas into my head! ? I need a plan then, I mean I literally need a plan. If I can find (& finish) this unfinished drawing and show the lounge, rest of the kitchen, position of boiler as is, it might help me visualise things. Got a feeling this was done in Draftsight on an old Linux pc...stuff doesn't transfer well straight to AutoCAD for what I want to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 The low volume in the LLH isn’t that relevant. Flow to the manifold pump will be there in abundance as the flow will just ignore ( shoot straight through ) the LLH when it wants ‘full wallop’ and then flow will just simply recirculate ‘through / around’ it when needing nowt / next-to-nowt. The CH flow and return will prob be best off running through the LLH instead of being T’d off the single pipe tbh so the premium heated water has to flow through to continue its onward journey. All we need here is hydraulic separation. Thinking SP flow into top of LLH, then onwards flow ( aka return ) from lower connection ( same side ), and then flow to manifold pump from top connection other side, manifold return below that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 Is it worth replacing the two room stats in the house, one upstairs & one down? Maybe something with a digital readout. For something more modern and just because I can! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) Well after living with the cleaned system for nearly a week it seems we can have the stat down at least 7.5degC and still feel warm. Place seems to warm up quicker and rads are hotter. That being said the boiler still comes on frequently but I guess that's the heat loss via the fabric. I'll bend the float valve in the F&E tank tomorrow to stop it coming out the overflow. Then I'll add the inhibitor. Thanks btw to all who helped. Edited November 13, 2020 by Onoff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Really pleased this has sorted a few of the issues. Are you pulling the mag filter to see what it’s like and add the inhibitor ..? Is UFH on the cards soon..? A warm bathroom for Mrs Onoff for Christmas 2020..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, PeterW said: Really pleased this has sorted a few of the issues. Are you pulling the mag filter to see what it’s like and add the inhibitor ..? Is UFH on the cards soon..? A warm bathroom for Mrs Onoff for Christmas 2020..?? Don't get your hopes up, she isn't! How often should I be pulling the filter? I pulled it I think 7 times before the power flush and of course it was caked, rotten. Once since. Less crud than all the other times but some. There's obviously a bit (of crud) still in the system judging by what's gone up into the F&E tank. He'll, I'll pull it once a week if it's a good idea. (I'll go pull the mag filter in a minute and post pics). I was debating whether I could dangle a swarf collector in the F&E tank wrapped in a plastic back and see what it attracts? https://cpc.farnell.com/evolution-powertools/cyclone/cyclone-magnetic-swarf-collector/dp/TL18867? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Let the mag filter do it - the one I use has a 800 micron stainless gauze filter too that is like a disk of mesh at the bottom of the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, PeterW said: Let the mag filter do it - the one I use has a 800 micron stainless gauze filter too that is like a disk of mesh at the bottom of the filter. Still getting crud out, but to be expected I guess. More black than rusty mind. From what I've read, power flushing of single pipe systems has its limitations even if reversing the flush. Best way is rads off and hose out in the garden. Unscrewing the lid from the mag filter was a mission. Put a spanner on it in the end and a smear of silicone grease on the threads when it went back on. Not the best light for the photos: Not happy tbh connecting anything new, like UFH to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 Bent the ball valve arm down a bit in the F&E tank. Hopefully that'll stop it coming out of the overflow. Added the first dose of inhibitor just now. Can I not just add the inhibitor to the F&E tank? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, Onoff said: Can I not just add the inhibitor to the F&E tank? Yes if you drain the contents into the system by venting somewhere else but tbh you won’t have enough flow between the tank and the system apart from when you are filling the system. Just use the magnaclean for what it’s there for ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, PeterW said: Yes if you drain the contents into the system by venting somewhere else but tbh you won’t have enough flow between the tank and the system apart from when you are filling the system. Just use the magnaclean for what it’s there for ! Will do ? Amazed at how stiff the mag filter lid is to unscrew, a spanner job. Maybe because I'm doing it hot? I've smeared silicone grease around the threads and is tbh easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 It should have come with a filter head spanner ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 31 minutes ago, PeterW said: It should have come with a filter head spanner ..?? No, it didn't, definitely not. Interesting comment here ?: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/cant-unscrew-intaklean-2-filter-lid.520710/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Onoff said: No, it didn't, definitely not. Interesting comment here ?: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/cant-unscrew-intaklean-2-filter-lid.520710/ From memory it is the same as the Flomasta one and you can get spares from S’Fix https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-magnetic-filter-seal-service-kit/3287V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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