No deal Brexit impact

[SteamyTea]

27 minutes ago, joe90 said:

no mention of the tariffs to be paid by the EU

won't they be WTO rules?

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

won't they be WTO rules?

Probably, but no one mentions what the EU will have to pay.!

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Probably, but no one mentions what the EU will have to pay.!

Well like us, more.

So we are all winners.

[joe90]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Well like us, more.

So we are all winners.

Yes, that’s my point. Problem is consumers pay tariffs, governments collect tariffs so a balancing has to be done somehow, still perhaps the tariffs received will help pay fir the coronavirus borrowing ?.

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Yes, that’s my point. Problem is consumers pay tariffs, governments collect tariffs so a balancing has to be done somehow, still perhaps the tariffs received will help pay fir the coronavirus borrowing ?.

Well that is part of the idea, the treasury gets more revenue.

Thing is, many of the items we current purchase as individuals, are not, and cannot realistically, be made in the UK.  Now we may be able to produce some, but relaxing employment, environmental and trading standards, but that is hardly progress, and we currently have some rules to stop that happening.

 

Going to be interesting to see if the WTO changes criteria, it is probably been waiting to see the outcome of any trade deals that we manage to see what they can change.

Ideally the WTO would agree with all its members that the kind of deal the EU has between member states is a good thing for the world i.e. unhindered free trade and movement of goods, services and people.

I would quite like to retire to where I lived as a teenager.

Edited December 13, 2020 by SteamyTea

[Pocster]

20 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

would quite like to retire to where I lived as a teenager.

Alcatraz ?

[joe90]

.........breaking news, talks to continue........

[SteamyTea]

21 minutes ago, pocster said:

Alcatraz ?

Is that what you are calling your spare bedroom.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

I would quite like to retire to where I lived as a teenager.

 

The YMCA?

[SteamyTea]

7 minutes ago, Onoff said:

YMCA

Worse job I ever had to do was cleaning out the spa bath filter from the Sheffield YMC.

I have no idea what those young men got up to in it.

@pocster

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Worse job I ever had to do was cleaning out the spa bath filter from the Sheffield YMC.

I have no idea what those young men got up to in it.

@pocster

Dirty bastards !

[Onoff]

[Gone West]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

.........breaking news, talks to continue........

Does that mean Boris hasn't yet cooked his goose with his oven ready deal.

[Temp]

4 hours ago, joe90 said:

Just watched Andrew Marr and he started the programme by saying he would look at the impact of no deal on both sides but despite talks of taffiffs being bad for the UK no mention of the tariffs to be paid by the EU ?.

 

Under WTO rules if we put a tariff on EU goods we must put the same tariff on all other countries.  

[Temp]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Currently if we can prove they have been through another EU country we can send them back to that country. We loose that right after Brexit.

 

[joe90]

4 minutes ago, Temp said:

 

Under WTO rules if we put a tariff on EU goods we must put the same tariff on all other countries.  

But aren’t we trading under WTO rules with others anyway? And the EU pay that tariff fir our stuff.

Edited December 13, 2020 by joe90

[Temp]

18 minutes ago, joe90 said:

But aren’t we trading under WTO rules with others anyway?

 

Yes indeed but WTO rules don't mean you MUST charge any particular tariff so in many cases we don't currently charge a tariff (perhaps because we don't make those products here). If we go slapping the same tariff on everybody its going to mess up a lot of stable trading relationships. Borris has already said he plans to scrap tariffs to "limit economic damage".

 

As a member of the EU we also agreed to accept a quota of products from outside the EU. On these products there is zero tariff until the quote has been exceeded then a tariff applies. I believe we have already agreed to continue to accept "our share" after Brexit. This agreement was made with the  WTO not the EU.

 

[Temp]

Ground staff looking after War graves in Europe told to return to the UK or face 50% pay cut..

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13467994/staff-world-war-graves-uk-50-per-cent-cut/

 

I think I would be checking my contract of employment and labour laws...

 

Quote

 

The gardeners, stonemasons, and staff look after cemeteries across France and Belgium, including those on the Somme, Ypres, Passchendale, Normandy and Dunkirk.

The team have been told by email that they must return to the UK or face a pay cut, The Mirror reports.

A 61-year-old gardener, who wanted to remain anonymous, has spent 35 years working for the Commission across Europe.

"It’s shocking and it has been handled so badly. It’s just so unfair," he said.

"We have all devoted our lives to looking after the graves of the brave soldiers who died and this is how we are being repaid.

"There has been no consultation – an email arrived one morning which gave us three weeks to make a decision. I feel so down."

"We either have to return to Britain, where many of us haven't lived for years, or take these terms which basically means our pay is halved," the gardener added.
 

 

A spokesperson said: "The end of the transition period from exiting the EU and the end of Free Movement of Labour has necessitated the introduction of new arrangements for 30 members of staff which will bring their terms and conditions in line with the laws of their host countries. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Temp

[Pocster]

[joe90]

Ooh er, level playing field?

[Bitpipe]

2 hours ago, Temp said:

Ground staff looking after War graves in Europe told to return to the UK or face 50% pay cut..

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13467994/staff-world-war-graves-uk-50-per-cent-cut/

 

I think I would be checking my contract of employment and labour laws...

 

I believe it's a similar story for other eu based staff who are employed from the UK like holiday reps, ski instructors etc.and pay UK tax and NI.

 

Leaving the single market (which is happening irrespective of deal or no deal) now makes that impossible so they need to be employed by a local entity in their country of work and comply with those national labour laws, which for many mean increased taxes, contributions etc. plus extra cost for the UK business to facilitate.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Bitpipe

[Bitpipe]

Looks like we're inching towards a deal.

 

Boris and co have gone into overdrive in positioning the EU trade negotiation terms as blackmail, punishment or surrender of sovereignty etc so that when some highly arcane and technical trade mechanisms relating to automation of tariffs relating to evolution of evolving standards are eventually agreed they can claim success and sell it to their back benchers and the press as an EU cave in. No doubt the fish solution will be similar.

 

Any eventual agreement should not be positioned as a UK cave in either, its just normal trade deal negotiations.

 

As has been said endlessly, if no-deal is wonderful and we will prosper mightily with it, why expend all this energy on trying to land a deal?

 

I think Boris is in a pickle in either situation - if it's no deal then he gets lambasted when there is (hopefully short term) chaos and shortages for not being able to do a deal.

 

If there is a deal there will still be chaos as that arises from our abrupt leaving of CU and SM and the immediate transition to a new way of managing trade that is still poorly understood and not fully deployed. So he'll get lambasted for that too, especially when people say 'But I thought we had a deal??'

 

[Pocster]

7 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

Looks like we're inching towards a deal.

 

Boris and co have gone into overdrive in positioning the EU trade negotiation terms as blackmail, punishment or surrender of sovereignty etc so that when some highly arcane and technical trade mechanisms relating to automation of tariffs relating to evolution of evolving standards are eventually agreed they can claim success and sell it to their back benchers and the press as an EU cave in. No doubt the fish solution will be similar.

 

Any eventual agreement should not be positioned as a UK cave in either, its just normal trade deal negotiations.

 

As has been said endlessly, if no-deal is wonderful and we will prosper mightily with it, why expend all this energy on trying to land a deal?

 

I think Boris is in a pickle in either situation - if it's no deal then he gets lambasted when there is (hopefully short term) chaos and shortages for not being able to do a deal.

 

If there is a deal there will still be chaos as that arises from our abrupt leaving of CU and SM and the immediate transition to a new way of managing trade that is still poorly understood and not fully deployed. So he'll get lambasted for that too, especially when people say 'But I thought we had a deal??'

 

To summarise your response ; we are (expletive deleted)ed either way 

[Bitpipe]

Just now, pocster said:

To summarise your response ; we are (expletive deleted)ed either way 

 

Well, we'll wait and see. There will be a lot of disruption no matter what happens, need to see how much of it is still there in 12 months.

 

Boris is potentially in a pickle either way I think, but I'm pretty convinced he's going to bugger off in the spring anyway due to covid / parenthood / boredom / better pay knocking out a weekly Telegraph column / etc.. 

[Temp]

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/brexit-french-fishermen-warn-they-will-take-action-if-uk-doesnt-get-a-deal-12166812

 

"French fishermen warn they will 'take action' if UK doesn't get a deal."

 

"Laurent says he and other French fishermen "won't accept" the UK ending the transition period without a deal."

 

"Everyone is impatient to find out what's happening, because some of my colleagues have got a lot of gear out in those waters. "Personally, I have €40,000 worth of lobster cages out in UK waters at the moment."