Planning Condition Ammendment

[Triassic]

I have a planning condition I wish to have amended. It states that my new roof "shall be covered using slate quarried from a source within the National Park". This type of planning clause was deemed to be anticompetitive under EU legislation, as the council cannot express a specific local supply preference, in this case, there is only one quarry operating within the National Park supplying slate.

 

I have no desire to open up a can of planning worms, but at the same time by changing to another supplier I'm likely to save a significant amount of money. I have no desire to use the alternative and then get into a tussle for not meeting the Planning Condition. 

 

How is this issue best approached? Is there a Planning Condition appeals process I need to follow.

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Triassic

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[ProDave]

There was mention on here once (or ebuild) of someone getting a Spanish slate sample, and submitting it to the planner as a sample of the local slate, and they approved it.

[Triassic]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

There was mention on here once (or ebuild) of someone getting a Spanish slate sample, and submitting it to the planner as a sample of the local slate, and they approved it.

There is no requirement to submit a sample. I assume that as they specified the only quarry in the Lakes, they thought that was good enough.

[Triassic]

28 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

You can appeal a planning condition if you are within 6 months of the approval.

Have they also got a condition requiring samples of materials?

 

I’m well past the six months. I wasn’t even aware there was a time limit.

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[Triassic]

6 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

yeah, there is a time limit on appeals, you can apply to have a planning condition removed or varied.

If you had a condition asking for material samples I would just send in a sample of the slate you want to use and see if they approve it 

There is no requirement to submit a sample.

 

looks like I need to investigate how easy it is to get a condition removed or varied!

Anyone got any experience of the process?

[Mr Punter]

You can apply online for variation or removal of a planning condition.  It may be worth seeing what the alternatives are to see if you can source something similar from, say Spain and discuss with the conservation officer.  Can you check the planning register to see if the condition is applied throughout? Also if your building is very focal or near a listed building or otherwise important area you will be on more sticky ground.

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[Triassic]

I've now talked the three people within the local Planning Department, the first two were clearly paid to field question as best they could within their limited knowledge base, I was finally put through to the Head of Planning, who contested that the condition was sound and that I would need to apply online and complete a Section 73 Form, requestion a variation to the planning condition, at a cost of £236.

 

Not happy to have to pay £236, however, it does save me around £7,000.

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[Triassic]

2 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

Ok, well if the head of planning is already resistant to a variation, make sure you have a very solid argument to put forward. Don't mention the money as the cost isn't an issue

 

If cost can't be used as an issue, (the local monopoly suppliers slates are £7,000 more!) then what ground should I focus on?

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[Triassic]

1 minute ago, the_r_sole said:

look for other local projects where they have either used alternatives or had the condition removed too. 

 

Can you search for such things on the LA web site?

[Mr Punter]

You need to find something to match and base your application around this. If you cannot find it you will have to go with the local stone.

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[Triassic]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

You need to find something to match and base your application around this. If you cannot find it you will have to go with the local stone.

I've found a suitable slate, the same colour and texture as the one from the local quarry.

 

What concerns me is the Planners attitude, he saw no reason why the National Parks Authority could dictate a monopolistic supplier. £7,000 is a lot extra to pay, but I may not have any choice, as cost can't be used when applying for a material amendment.  I'd hate to pay £236 for a Section 73 application and get nowhere!

[Mr Punter]

Perhaps apply to get the wording changed to "shall be covered using slate matching that quarried from a source within the National Park"  What was the stated reason for the condition?

[Tyke2]

It does depend on the officer in question. I had a planning condition to use natural stone in diminishing courses. I looked around locally and there were several that had used alternative manufactured concrete replica stone tiles in diminishing courses and the planner accepted this as meeting the condition.

Why don't you get a sample of the cheaper one, and show it to the planners. They may accept it as an alternative.

[lizzie]

We got our roof changed from a green roof to a single ply membrane in lead look alike colour.  We talked to planners and had to submit an NMA, planners had already said they would approve it.  We did it via original architect as he had good relationship with local planners. We also included a change to siting of the house as original approval had the rear wall of the house hard against the earth bank of next doors garden (we had to drop down a couple of metres so house not visible on horizon above existing garden wall).  I did not want a rear wall of my house having to be a tanked wall. We applied to move the house 1m away and built a massive retaining wall which gives us a back pathway and back door, this enabled our internal layout changes too.

 

We bought with a planning in place. It was granted more than 6 months before we bought.  We are not in a national park but on the edge of an outstanding area of natural beauty and in the garden of a (so far) unlisted house of special local historic interest. The original application got through with the roof and wall being major considerations into low impact for planners after a series of refusals but once they had granted a permission they agreed to to our NMA to remove both those items which were deal breakers on the plot purchase for me. They also made it clear that was the extent of the changes they would go with without a whole new application and there was no appetite for that on our side given the planning history on the site.

 

As I recall the fees were a few hundred and similar for architects fee.

 

I think a dialogue with the planners is very important to you and I would gather some samples and go and see them, ask for a meeting and show them side by side the two roofing materials. 

[Triassic]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

What was the stated reason for the condition?

 

To ensure a satisfactory standard of appearance of the development by the use of traditional materials in accordance with the saved Policy BE1of the Lake District National Park Plan (1998).

 

42 minutes ago, lizzie said:

a dialogue with the planners is very important to you and I would gather some samples and go and see them, ask for a meeting and show them side by side the two roofing materials

 

I've takes to the Planner and he sees nothing wrong in the condition as it stands.

 

Looks like I'll just have to suck up the extra £7,000 the roof will cost.

[vivienz]

Whether the slate is local or e.g. Spanish, surely that is still a traditional material?  To my eyes, that's not the same as local.  As it's the appearance that appears to be the important thing, if your substitute looks the same and is a traditional material, surely that satisfied the condition? 

 

It might be worth finding out what the lead time is on the local stuff - if it's ages, you might be able to say that you need to use a substitute because it can be obtained more quickly and, thus, make better progress towards completion.

[joe90]

 

I am sure that I read on this or another forum that planners were not allowed to specify where a slate came from, just the colour. Someone got a slate he liked (and could afford) and was similar in colour to the local quarry (that the planners wanted used) and pencilled on the back the name of that quarry, sent it to the planners as a sample and they passed it!. Worth a thought.

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[lizzie]

1 hour ago, Triassic said:

To ensure a satisfactory standard of appearance of the development by the use of traditional materials in accordance with the saved Policy BE1of the Lake District National Park Plan (1998).

 

I've takes to the Planner and he sees nothing wrong in the condition as it stands.

 

Looks like I'll just have to suck up the extra £7,000 the roof will cost.

Even looking at your sampes he won’t budge? That is awful sounds a real problem character. Might be worth you investing a few hundred in a chat with a good local planning consultant see if they can help.

 

Good luck.

[Triassic]

58 minutes ago, lizzie said:

Even looking at your sampes he won’t budge? That is awful sounds a real problem character. Might be worth you investing a few hundred in a chat with a good local planning consultant.....

1

I offered to show him a sample of the alternative slate, but he wasn't interested.

 

I'm currently taking advice about the anti-competitive aspects of the planning condition, in that, the planning authority should not require the sourcing a building material from a geographical area, if that results in a monopolistic supply situation, as in this case.