Bungalow Extension

[Me111]

I am planning a single story extension to my 3 bed bungalow.

The extension will be to the rear, 3 metres deep and the width of the two rear bedrooms. The lean to conservatory is almost falling down so that will go. My question is, what is the best way to make use of the extra space? The obvious, to me, thing it to make the two bedrooms longer, but my concern is that this may make them too long and thin? The drive is to the right of the bungalow, and the garage is at the end of the drive, set back about 3 metres behind the bungalow. We may look to add a conservatory off the back of the lounge (we've already taken out the lounge window and put in sliding doors) but don't want to lose access to the rear garden from the drive.
All the internal walls are studs, but we've just re-done the kitchen and bathroom so not looking to change the layout too radically. We'd like an en-suite as we have 2 small boys, and plan on staying here for the foreseeable future.

Any ideas gratefully received.

[ProDave]

That's an unusual layout in that the only access to the rear (and the old lean too) is through the small bedroom.

 

Just making the 2 bedrooms longer is not going to achieve much.  Can we have a plot layout?  A side extension would make a lot more sense but I am guessing there is no room to do that?

[Triassic]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Why extend out, why not go up into the roof space? As you say you could end up with two long thin bedrooms 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Triassic

[newhome]

Welcome! You could possibly leave the main bedroom as it is and divide the new extension up as you intended and use the new bit off the main bedroom to provide a decent ensuite and dressing room. Can you put a window in the side wall? The smaller bedroom is more problematic as it would be a very narrow room so maybe consider putting the bedroom in the new bit and use the existing bedroom as a playroom for the boys. As you say you can’t really just extend the room sizes as both would become far too long and narrow. 

 

I don’t really understand what you mean about garden access from the drive so can you post a plot photo please. I assume you can’t just put the conservatory on the back of the sitting / dining room as the garage would prevent access to the garden? 

[ultramods]

As @ProDave has said, the proposed extension doesn't make much sense just now. 

 

What are you trying to achieve overall?

Are you extending simply to make 1 or 2 of the bedrooms bigger?

Are you wanting to add ensuites?

Are you wanting the extension to allow you to resize any of the other rooms in the house?

 

[Gone West]

Hi and welcome to the forum. You could knock the two rear bedrooms into one and the extension could be another bedroom. Extend the hall to the rear for access to the bedroom and outside.

Edited September 16, 2018 by PeterStarck

[Me111]

5 hours ago, Triassic said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

Why extend out, why not go up into the roof space? As you say you could end up with two long thin bedrooms 

 

 

 

The roof isn't hight enough to go up. The apex isn't 2.4m, I can't stand up and I'm 1.8m. So that would need the roof raising.

[Me111]

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

Hi and welcome to the forum. You could knock the two rear bedrooms into one and the extension could be another bedroom. Extend the hall to the rear for access to the bedroom and outside.

Yes, that was a thought, but it would leave one bedroom with no outside light, unless roof lights were put in. This may have a bearing on building control?

[Me111]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

That's an unusual layout in that the only access to the rear (and the old lean too) is through the small bedroom.

 

Just making the 2 bedrooms longer is not going to achieve much.  Can we have a plot layout?  A side extension would make a lot more sense but I am guessing there is no room to do that?

Most of the bungalows around here are like that, I presume that the middle bedroom was originally a dining room? I have attached a plot layout. The drive is to the right of the property and to the right of our drive is next doors drive, so going out the side is not an option. It's a semi-detached bungalow, so going left isn't possible either. There's a fair sized front garden, but no precedent of planning being granted to the front of any local properties.

[Me111]

6 hours ago, ultramods said:

As @ProDave has said, the proposed extension doesn't make much sense just now. 

 

What are you trying to achieve overall? Larger bedroom for the kids and an en-suite for our bedroom

Are you extending simply to make 1 or 2 of the bedrooms bigger? Basically yes

Are you wanting to add ensuites? Yes, to our bedroom

Are you wanting the extension to allow you to resize any of the other rooms in the house? Not really

 

 

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, Me111 said:

Yes, that was a thought, but it would leave one bedroom with no outside light, unless roof lights were put in. This may have a bearing on building control?

You could use high level windows between the bedroom and extended hall with a glass door at the end of the hall into the garden. Another option would be a light tube.

[Ferdinand]

@Me111

 

To be honest I think that given your constraints it is bloody difficult to create an effective and atttractive layout at a reasonable cost, to the point of being almost impossible as far as I can see without accepting some sort of major compromise for *someone*. Creativity required.

 

So..

 

What is in the Hall cupboard, and how big an ensuite do you want?

 

I assume that the child in the front bedroom does not need that enlarging.

 

The best option I can currently see is this:

 

1 Move the extension to the other side, across bedrooom 3 and the lounge.

2 Get te space for your ensuites from the hall cupboard - but that wall might be structural - and by nickIng the bit from bed 3 on te left inside the door.

3 Enlarge bed 3 into the new extension, and sideways by a couple of feet or a metre Into the 14ft 7 wide lounge. A 12 ft wide lounge can be zoned lengthways into eg eating, sitting more easily than a 7 ft wide bedroom.

4 Lengthen the lounge into the rest of the new extension as a sunny sitting space.

5 Patio doors in te master to a secluded south facing terrace.

6 Eventually get rid of the wall between kitchen and lounge that will give you a correctly orientated modern through room.

 

One advantage is that your extension would be away from both boundaries so no Party Wall Agreement pfaffing, at the cost of more messing about with stud walls.

 

Another advantage is that you get three practical double bedrooms, rather than 2doubles and a corridor.

 

Suspect this suggestion needs to be drawn to be appreciated.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

@Me111

 

PS Your terrace would actually be a south-east facing weekend breakfast space.

 

You say that most of them are like that.

 

So your home work is to find out who has faced the same issue and how they did it. People love to explain how clever they have been, so just spend a Saturday knocking on some doors.

 

A supplementary source will be the floorplans comtained in eg Zoopla in their advertised properties archive.Find via road names or postcodes in Google of the sold prices search.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Me111]

Sadly I haven't been able to find any that have done anything similar. Conservatories have been put on the back of lounges, but nothing else that I can find from nosing around on planning applications, rightmove or in real life, sadly

[Ed Davies]

Google maps satellite view is pretty good for nosing around the general shape of people's houses, too.

[Ferdinand]

@Me111

 

A couple of quick ideas. By all means cherry-pick, as I have ignored at least one of your constraints.

 

The main ideas are:

 

Plan A

 

1 - Switch the extension so your extra space goes mainly to living, where all of you get to benefit.

2 - Through lounge.

3 - Morning sun terrace for existing master.

4 - Move walls to make middle bedroom a little less corridor like, and give space for an ensuite and wardrobe in the master, and potentially a desk and/or wardrobe where the lounge wall has moved on the way in, and a 3m x 3m sleeping/relaxing space at the end (I would do a desk and storage over, perhaps with a single wardrobe at the side).

 

Plan B

5 - Where walls are moved, 
a the master in the back corner gets space for an ensuite.

b the back bedroom gets part of the new extension and space where the wall has moved to have either a desk or wardrobe, as above.

c the front bedroom gets space for storage plus a desk, similarly.

 

I think that is a far better balance.
 

Plan C

 

I have not explored this properly, but if the WHB and door in the bathroom were swapped so the bathroom door was just inside the front door on the left, all of that confused maze of doors and hall cupboard could be in the front bedroom, with the corner master being entered via what is now the front part of the middle bedroom, and that would transform bedroom 3.

And the kitchen wall could be addressed.

 

Phasing

 

This could all be phased over x years if finances require. At the start the whole extension could be done and demolish your current external wall last (I think) to give the new middle bedroom and lounge, so you do not end up living in a building site. Then do the bedroom changes as you are able.

 

What you have now:

 

 

What you have proposed:

 

 

@Ferdinand Plan A:

 

 

 @Ferdinand Plan B:

 

F

Edited September 17, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Forgot to say, imo South facing conservatories are verging on madness not all they used to be cracked up to be - you get something that is too hot in summer, too cool in winter unless you invest £££ in heating, and very little extra on the value of your house. It is naturally usable for a time in spring and autumn. 

 

Witness all the companies offering to fix conservatories with various versions of real roofs for sums of £5k to £10k

 

Put the conservatory budget into a real room extension with real insulation, and you will get something usable in 4 seasons, and which adds value.

 

Or go with a shaded terrace at 10-20% of the cost.

Ferdinand

 

[caliwag]

You could build a new room as a pavilion thus creating a BBQ space in an external patio between the living room and garage and create an interesting glazed corridor from the existing access door to the new bedroom which would include an ensuite (all sizes to taste) all this could be achieved without disruption to house.

The 'new' room could be designed in such a form that it could have a pyramid roof, which would look good. it'd be more expensive but give loads of possibilities.

 

Unsure where North is, but there is scope for a sunny 'Homework' space or whatever in the glazed corridor...all to taste...access doors to suite garden activities and bin store etc!

the roof space in the pyramid could house 'long term 'storage.

 

Also scope for a glimpse view from entrance hall area to activities, plants, books etc in glazed corridor and possibly to an interesting view and garden feature beyond.

[Me111]

13 hours ago, caliwag said:

You could build a new room as a pavilion thus creating a BBQ space in an external patio between the living room and garage and create an interesting glazed corridor from the existing access door to the new bedroom which would include an ensuite (all sizes to taste) all this could be achieved without disruption to house.

The 'new' room could be designed in such a form that it could have a pyramid roof, which would look good. it'd be more expensive but give loads of possibilities.

 

Unsure where North is, but there is scope for a sunny 'Homework' space or whatever in the glazed corridor...all to taste...access doors to suite garden activities and bin store etc!

the roof space in the pyramid could house 'long term 'storage.

 

Also scope for a glimpse view from entrance hall area to activities, plants, books etc in glazed corridor and possibly to an interesting view and garden feature beyond.

Sounds good, liking the idea of lots of light, but I'm struggling to visualise what you're saying I'm afraid.

[Me111]

Thanks for your ideas @Ferdinand, I'll have a proper look and think at what you're proposing.

[Ferdinand]

On 17/09/2018 at 17:02, caliwag said:

You could build a new room as a pavilion thus creating a BBQ space in an external patio between the living room and garage and create an interesting glazed corridor from the existing access door to the new bedroom which would include an ensuite (all sizes to taste) all this could be achieved without disruption to house.

The 'new' room could be designed in such a form that it could have a pyramid roof, which would look good. it'd be more expensive but give loads of possibilities.

 

Unsure where North is, but there is scope for a sunny 'Homework' space or whatever in the glazed corridor...all to taste...access doors to suite garden activities and bin store etc!

the roof space in the pyramid could house 'long term 'storage.

 

 

The back garden faces South-East.

 

@Me111

 

@caliwag is thinking of this kind of thing (I think), but in a more modest form:

 

 

[caliwag]

Indeed it is...the lantern light may have added to keep the height of the pyramid down, but yes, the possibilities are endless, not to mention that it can be carried out with minimal disruption to the house...assuming there is access. Well researched F

[Me111]

Is the existing bungalow on the right and the garage the taller building to the rear, in your example?

[caliwag]

I feel it's time to get a designer or architect involved!

[Ferdinand]

18 hours ago, Me111 said:

Is the existing bungalow on the right and the garage the taller building to the rear, in your example?

 

Is that for me?

 

I was aiming just to illustrate the concept of "pavilion" and "corridor" when you asked what @caliwag meant, rather than provide a full analagous situation. Suspect the one I illustrated would have a slightly chunky budget ?, being built out of Oak by an Oak specialist company. As built that scheme in the picture looks like about 75k-100k to me.

 

But similar things can always be done for about half the all-in cost by self-builders willing to sweat detail and apply elbow grease. In this case I suspect it would need different materials to meet a reasonable budget for ordinary mortals.

 

My pic came from here, and you could ask them more details if you wanted: http://www.essenceofoak.co.uk/OakGardenRoomsGallery.aspx

 

I also think it is a good opportunity to think through your requirements after the various comments, and come back with questions. Or indeed have a chat with a designer.

 

It is also perhaps worth a look into Planning - I think your original idea would need planning permission (closeness to boundary), @caliwag's pavilion may fall under Permitted Devleopment (PD) if you meet the terms of the "Proposed Larger Home Extension" scheme which allows 6m rearward extension until May 2019 under PD if you follow the neighbour consultation scheme and no one goes "nay, lad". My suggestion is away from the side boundary on both sides so should fall under normal PD if you stick to your 3m.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Ferdinand