Getting the neighbours on side...

[Tyke2]

2.4 m back and 70 m along back of footpath.

 

Try this:

 

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/visibility-splays/

 

But I would have thought this was fo ran adoptable access road and not a domestic driveway.

[Olly P]

Well that's all the neighbours visited including the cul de sac opposite the site.

Of around 10 houses, two have shown possible objections as their houses over look our site albeit along way away. However everyone of those houses I knocked on the door said thank you for letting them know what was happening and appreciated the call. I'm glad I've done it and think it has definitely reduced the amount of objections that could of been. 

[Moonshine]

Well done on doing it as I think it's probably the best way on getting people on side, or at least mitigate the negative feeling about the proposal. If I submit I will be looking to do the same

Out of interest how long is it until you formally submit the planning application, also did you take drawings with you?

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by mike m

[Olly P]

The planning consultant is hoping to submit the planning application later on this week.  As it is an outline planning application there is no drawings submitted, these will be produced when (fingers crossed!) We go to full planning. 

[jack]

Nicely done, glad it worked out so well.

 

3 hours ago, Olly P said:

... two have shown possible objections as their houses over look our site albeit along way away.  

 

Well if they're the only objections you face, great! Why do so many people think not wanting to look at a house in the distance is a reasonable basis for objection? If that were a basis for objecting, there'd never be any new builds other than in remote areas.

[joe90]

Our neighbour objected (to everything) one of his objections was our headlights shining in his window when we exited our drive at night. The appeal officer said they were way to far away to be affected. So yes, an objection does not mean refusal, it has to be reasonable.

[Olly P]

12 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Our neighbour objected (to everything) one of his objections was our headlights shining in his window when we exited our drive at night. The appeal officer said they were way to far away to be affected. So yes, an objection does not mean refusal, it has to be reasonable.

 

Headlights shining into a window! If that's all they've got to worry about then I think they were clutching at straws.

 

One of the two houses that will be able to see our site, one has a very long garden arguably a field with trees at the end,  which would separate our dwellojg from theirs so I can't see any problems with over looking. They didn't say if they would object or not. 

 

The other one is adjacent to the site, across the road and it is the rear of their house which looks onto our field. The ground floor is completely surrounded by a 10ft hedge so it is only the upstairs windows of the back of the house ( bathroom and bedroom) which will look onto our field. They said straight away they would object to the proposal on the grounds that they don't want a building site behind their house and that they would lose all the privacy and outlook that the house has, potentially de-valuing it! My reply was that the dormer bungalow would have a low ridge height in comparison to a conventional house and that we are looking at timber frame to speed up the building process. I also explained that the dwelling would be our for life and we are not doing it for profit etc. Do you think their comments are a reasonable objection if they responded to the LPA in writing? 

[joe90]

Ha, you cannot object to a building site otherwise nothing (including their house) would ever  get built. I think if their gardens are that big and you are building dormer style to reduce mass (a word I used in my successful appeal) that shows you are being reasonable !

[jack]

1 hour ago, Olly P said:

Do you think their comments are a reasonable objection if they responded to the LPA in writing? 

 

Absolutely not.

 

Re: spacing, there's planning guidance covering all aspects of overlooking, including what is considered reasonable spacing between, eg, rear elevations of properties. From memory, the distance is 21 or 22m. If you're over that, there's simply no basis for objection. 

 

As for devaluing their house, again, that isn't a planning consideration and will be ignored.

 

Joe90 is dead right about the building site too - if inconvenience associated with building were a planning consideration, nothing would ever get built, as someone is nearly always inconvenienced by the construction process.

 

Just bear in mind that things get built all the time, often (usually?) in situations where the surrounding properties are affected. The planning office will only consider valid planning objections, and on the face of it, your neighbours don't have any.

 

Also bear in mind that it's very rare for a member of the general public to come up with a valid, reasonable basis for objection that won't already have been taken into account by the planning officer. The odds go up a bit if they engage a planning consultant, but most don't.

 

In my opinion, the main risk associated with objections is that if you get a certain number of them (5 is common, I believe), that may be a trigger for the application to be brought before the council's planning committee. At that point, things can become more difficult, stressful, murky and unpredictable, because councillors rarely have the knowledge or experience to apply the law correctly. This can go your way, but can also go against you. You can always appeal, but that adds to the cost, time and stress of getting permission.

[Tyke2]

3 hours ago, Olly P said:

 

Headlights shining into a window! If that's all they've got to worry about then I think they were clutching at straws.

 

One of the two houses that will be able to see our site, one has a very long garden arguably a field with trees at the end,  which would separate our dwellojg from theirs so I can't see any problems with over looking. They didn't say if they would object or not. 

 

The other one is adjacent to the site, across the road and it is the rear of their house which looks onto our field. The ground floor is completely surrounded by a 10ft hedge so it is only the upstairs windows of the back of the house ( bathroom and bedroom) which will look onto our field. They said straight away they would object to the proposal on the grounds that they don't want a building site behind their house and that they would lose all the privacy and outlook that the house has, potentially de-valuing it! My reply was that the dormer bungalow would have a low ridge height in comparison to a conventional house and that we are looking at timber frame to speed up the building process. I also explained that the dwelling would be our for life and we are not doing it for profit etc. Do you think their comments are a reasonable objection if they responded to the LPA in writing? 

Any objection has to have a valid planning reason to be taken into account. As said before, the planning officer should have taken all into account anyway.

If it goes to committee and a councillor with some clout gets nobbled by enough objectors, they could refuse. But you would win on appeal.

From experience - I had an application refused at committee despite it having officers recommendation for approval. The planning officer asked the committee to give him the reason for refusal to record the decision. the councillor replied "Just put - Too silly". The officer obviously didn't record it this way. When we appealed, the councils written representation extended to just two sides of A4. Ours was 200 pages. We won the appeal.

[joe90]

3 minutes ago, Tyke2 said:

We won the appeal

 

Join the club, we won on appeal even after taking it to committee because a councillor supported us and several others told me they would support us, but, on the day they ALL voted against us. I heard it off the record that they were told to vote against it, big brother eh. When we won the appeal the council were told they were not abiding by their own policies!! 

[Tyke2]

If it gets refused, despite having officers recommendation for approval, the council have little or no chance of winning an appeal.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Tyke2

[Olly P]

The problem we have is that although it is inbetween an existing dwelling and agricultural building and it has houses opposite it, it's an application to build a dwelling in a field. Planning officers will feel duty bound to reject it on that in their opinion it is building in open countryside. Apart from that problem all the other planning policies we can't see being an issue. This is why we are using a Planning Consultant who will hopefully put a good enough fight and if it goes to committee (which we think it most Likely will) we can argue that it complies with policy.  

It is however really good to see that you guys have won on appeal. May I ask how long from the submission  of application  did you get it passed by committee? 

[jack]

2 minutes ago, Olly P said:

The problem we have is that although it is inbetween an existing dwelling and agricultural building and it has houses opposite it, it's an application to build a dwelling in a field. Planning officers will feel duty bound to reject it on that in their opinion it is building in open countryside. 

 

Sure, but the neighbours' comments you were asking about have no more relevance to building in the countryside than they do to development generally.

 

Using an experienced, local planning consultant is by far your best bet for dealing with this issue. I'd say that neighbours' potential objections have fallen even further in relative importance, given the broader planning challenge you face.

[joe90]

I agree that a GOOD consultant will use all the right words but I did mine myself (with a letter from my mediocre consultant), I think it took 20 weeks. The reason I did mine myself was the reasons for rejection were based on wrong facts and I had proof that I was right (which I was not allowed to present at the committee hearing).

[Hecateh]

11 hours ago, Olly P said:

Do you think their comments are a reasonable objection if they responded to the LPA in writing? 

 

Not at all.

I live on a cul de sac and all the other neighbours (3) objected on exactly those grounds.  That there would be mess on the road and that during the build their access would be restricted at times.

 

Thrown out as being not relevant to planning. Which was reiterated many many times during the build phase when they kept phoning the council to complain.

 

However, 10 months later they *the neighbours* are still being 'stupid'. 

 

During the very heavy rain last week the drain, which prevents water running onto their drive was not draining.  This drain has been cleaned by the council since the main building activity was finished but since then the electricity board has dug it up twice.  The 2 most difficult neighbours spent some time clearing it.  (I have sympathy for this but there is nothing I could have done to prevent it).  Everything they removed from the drain was dumped on my drive.  (I don't have an issue with this and am quite happy to dispose of it).  However I'm not sure they realise that from my lounge I can see them looking and pointing.

 

I had my kitchen delivered today.  None of the neighbours (vehicles) were in.  One came back about 5 minutes before the delivery ended.  He left his car in the road blocking the delivery vehicle.  Luckily his neighbour in crime wasn't home, so when the van needed to leave he meekly removed his car, without objection.  However, had the other, more belligerent, guy have been home there would have been a stupid standoff.  Which I would have left them to sort out with the deliverers as, it appears, me being there only inflates the situation and these drivers were professionals - unlike my original builders who inflamed the situation.  

 

2 out of 3 of these neighbours had no objections when I spoke to them originally (didn't have the opportunity to talk to the 3rd) but, talking amongst themselves afterwards, built up resentment.  

 

Don't expect people to be reasonable, but try to build on it when they are, really try to get them onside when you get the opportunity to do so. AND at least until the build is finished, bite your tongue when they are being arseholes less than than agreeable.  

[joe90]

Christ some people need to get a life.

Edited September 24, 2018 by joe90

[joe90]

6 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

when they kept phoning the council to complain.

 

Our complaining neighbour kept ringing the enforcement officer to say I was working on site before planning permission had been granted so before I started work I used to ring him (the enforcement officer) to say what Work I was doing, clearing ditches in the field next door, cutting grass etc etc, he then stopped coming out and wasting his time.

[newhome]

In our case it wasn't individuals who complained constantly but the community council who hadn't wanted the houses built here in the first place despite being outside the village and impacting not one of them. My neighbour in the period cottage next door said that she couldn't understand why the council preferred to see it left as unkept waste ground rather than have houses built on it but there's nowt so queer as folk. The community council were constantly looking for things to complain to the main council about, whether it was someone parking outside my house to deliver something, the garage that was allowed under PD, or where my neighbours left their bins, it was a relentless campaign over a 3 year period and then they stopped. Complete waste of effort on their part. 

 

[Olly P]

8 hours ago, newhome said:

.....The community council were constantly looking for things to complain to the main council about, whether it was someone parking outside my house to deliver something, the garage that was allowed under PD, or where my neighbours left their bins, it was a relentless campaign over a 3 year period and then they stopped. Complete waste of effort on their part. 

 

 

Thats terrible. How can a Community Council (equivalent to our Parish Council?) that I assume consists of councillors who are unqualified in any form of Planning, hold up your Planning Permission for 3 years and subsequently costing you more money, by submitting unjust objections to the LPA. It seems completely unfair and the LPA should only take their objections lightly and asking for an opinion only. No hold ups should be a result of the Community/Parish Council's objections  to the LPA.

 

Our Parish Council only has a handful of councillors in it that meet in a Village Hall on a Monday evening. I'm going to the next meeting to start getting them on my side before the application goes in.  I believe that if I dont, and only one resident attends the meeting complaining about it, they will follow suit and object the application.

 

 

[jack]

24 minutes ago, Olly P said:

I believe that if I dont, and only one resident attends the meeting complaining about it, they will follow suit and object the application.

 

Ouch. Suggest you bring a cake. 

[PeterW]

@Olly P I suggest you have a read of the parish council minutes for previous meetings before you attend. They can be very vociferous in their approach and you probably need to understand who comments on what etc which the minutes “should” record... and use that to focus your information. 

 

Also ensure you tell them you are coming - write to the secretary and say you would like to discuss a proposal for a new family home (note the wording...) then if they decline to meet you, I would keep that and potentially use it if there is any issues. PCs are normally ignored if it’s nimbyism around rejecting PP but having them support is useful. 

[newhome]

45 minutes ago, Olly P said:

How can a Community Council (equivalent to our Parish Council?) that I assume consists of councillors who are unqualified in any form of Planning, hold up your Planning Permission for 3 years

 

They didn’t hold up the PP, it was granted despite their objections. The complaints to the council happened whilst we were building the house. We would look at the minutes each month to see what misdemeanour we had offended them with that month. It was all highly unprofessional on their part TBH and I’m sure that the main council got highly sick of their complaints. My husband and neighbours went up to one of their meetings once to try to understand the cause of their venom. I couldn’t go as I was working away. Apparently it was a waste of time and all that was recorded in the minutes was that ‘3 members of the public’ attended. Eventually it stopped, no doubt when they found another householder to focus on. Small village, small minded folk sadly. I’m glad that I live outside the village. 

[joe90]

My parish council supported my application (mostly local farmers that knew the site) only by not objecting!!. Don’t people get it that if small villages don’t expand and welcome new people they will die off, it’s no wonder pubs and local shops are going out of business. If I remember correctly government some years ago gave local councils more autonomy over local planning decisions.

 

My fight for planning permission took two years and as the original house had burned down the site was an untidy tip for two years more than it needed to be.

Edited September 25, 2018 by joe90

[AliMcLeod]

On 24/09/2018 at 07:47, Olly P said:

I'm glad I've done it and think it has definitely reduced the amount of objections that could of been. 

Well done on getting people on side, but I'd be a bit wary of assuming that all the people who sounded positive when you spoke to them on the doorstep will stay on side. Some people don't like face-to-face conflict and might say one thing to your face and then something else later, particularly if others raise an objection.  It doesn't sound like any have any valid reason for objection, however.