VAT for TV aerial installation?

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

Does anyone know if you can claim the VAT back for a TV aerial for supply & fix?

[le-cerveau]

Yes you can, it is specifically listed on the VAT431NB, page 15.  SO you can claim the VAT on anything you buy.

 

If having it installed (Supply and Fit) have it zero rated as you cannot claim back incorrectly charged contractor VAT.

 

Just pay the invoice Without VAT and point them to the respective paperwork.

 

If you don't pay the VAT and tell them it is not chargeable, you are done.  They cannot pursue you for the VAT on a non VAT chargeable item.

[newhome]

It’s also listed here:

 

 

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

Thank you.

[HerbJ]

2 hours ago, le-cerveau said:

If having it installed (Supply and Fit) have it zero rated as you cannot claim back incorrectly charged contractor VAT.

 

This is not correct see my input below

On 22/08/2018 at 13:13, HerbJ said:

 

 It is against the law to charge VAT on a VALID new build that is zero rated.   So, a contractor cannot refuse to zero rate supply and labour invoices on a valid new build. They must  ZERO rate and cannot charge VAT.

 

I was told by HMRC that it is possible to recover incorrectly charged  VAT by taking the contractor to court and claiming the incorrectly applied VAT, as determined by the relevant legislation., .  We used this "veiled threat" using words provided by HMRC in their rejection of two invoices with supply and  labour content, when they responded to our VAT Claim.. We recovered the VAT, on the supply and labour, without resorting to the court.

 

See Reason 1 on page 2 of the letter we received from HMRC - attached. These are the words  we used in letters to contractors who had incorrectly (and illegally) charged VAT, despite being given the valid support documents.  

 

So, it is possible to recover illegally charged VAT, though it may not be easy if the contractor plays difficult and this is likely to happen with a smaller contractor., usually because their accountants do not know the legislation and don't want to deal properly with HMRC on their VAT returns.  We were lucky, but we were silly to get into this situation  and it prudent to sort it out before paying any VAT!!

 

HMRC will always reject a VAT claim with any  labour content.  

HMRC Letter for BH.pdf

 

As @le-cerveau says refusing to pay illegally/incorrectly charged is the best approach and careful management of contractors is required  to avoid a stressful and prolonged VAT reclaim experience with contractors.

2 hours ago, le-cerveau said:

Just pay the invoice Without VAT and point them to the respective paperwork.

 

If you don't pay the VAT and tell them it is not chargeable, you are done.  They cannot pursue you for the VAT on a non VAT chargeable item.

 

[newhome]

Hi Moira,

 

I would refuse to pay the VAT and hand the supplier the document attached in the 3rd post in this post. It’s what @lizzie was told by HMRC to use for ‘difficult’ trades 

 

https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/6851-a-guide-to-the-vat-reclaim-process/?do=findComment&comment=115965

 

 

 

[Temp]

17 hours ago, le-cerveau said:

If having it installed (Supply and Fit) have it zero rated as you cannot claim back incorrectly charged contractor VAT.

 

Just pay the invoice Without VAT and point them to the respective paperwork.

 

If you don't pay the VAT and tell them it is not chargeable, you are done.  They cannot pursue you for the VAT on a non VAT chargeable item.

 

Personally I don't recommend accepting a quote "Inc VAT" and then not paying the VAT. It might be legal but it's better to point out beforehand that it should be zero rated. If they are awkward about it go elsewhere. If they get awkward after doing the work they may not be so keen to sort any problems or warranty.

[Ed Davies]

2 hours ago, Temp said:

Personally I don't recommend accepting a quote "Inc VAT" and then not paying the VAT.

I don't think anybody's recommending that; you should make it clear what parts should be zero rated before accepting the quote. The question is, though, what to do when they charge VAT anyway. I've had three invoices in the last year or so which should have been zero rated or partly so: scaffolding, digger+driver to lift rafters, sarking and membrane on the roof. For all of them  I discussed the VAT situation before agreeing to the work. In two of the three I got an invoice with full VAT.

[newhome]

2 hours ago, Ed Davies said:

The question is, though, what to do when they charge VAT anyway. 

 

I had one like that. The guy (liquid screed layer) said he wasn’t aware of the zero rated vat scenario (strange as he must have done many new builds surely). I told him I would pay ex vat, he told me he would come back to me if HMRC said it was an issue. I never heard from him again. 

 

We’re all rather assuming that @Moira Niedzwiecka has an issue with this seller. He may have just not understood the rules in which case it might be as easy  as going back to ask to a new invoice to be raised. It’s always best to have conversations about the vat at the quote stage rather than the invoice stage because the trader may not have accepted the job if it had to be at zero vat. Traders on the flat rate vat scheme for example who will have to pay vat on that transaction regardless.

 

If the majority of a trader’s business is on existing houses they may not be aware of or want the hassle of charging different vat rates for the jobs that have this concession. Unless a trader seems well versed in the vat rules it’s probably best to put something in writing stating that you expect the job to be zero rated and will not be paying vat. As explained in the VAT post you can give them the planning permission or mock up a ‘certificate’ if it helps. 

 

[Hecateh]

If the installer is not VAT registered and does supply and fit then I think you are snookered though

 

There will be no VAT on his labour but he will have paid VAT on the arial and you cannot reclaim that unless you persuade him to get you an invoice direct from his supplier with your name and address on.

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

Thanks guys.

It is just a quote at the moment.

He is a nice guy & comes from a recommendation.

It was just to check before & I go back to him & ask him to re quote minus the VAT.

I do not think it will be a problem.

 

[jack]

3 hours ago, Hecateh said:

If the installer is not VAT registered and does supply and fit then I think you are snookered though

 

There will be no VAT on his labour but he will have paid VAT on the arial and you cannot reclaim that unless you persuade him to get you an invoice direct from his supplier with your name and address on.

 

We had this with our electrician. In the end I just used to give him my credit card to go and buy things in my name!

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

 

We had this with our electrician. In the end I just used to give him my credit card to go and buy things in my name!

 

You were trusting! We just had accounts at places like Electric Centre or if they really wanted to use their own supplier they used to call and we would provide payment details over the phone. 

[Hecateh]

14 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

You were trusting! We just had accounts at places like Electric Centre or if they really wanted to use their own supplier they used to call and we would provide payment details over the phone. 

 

That's how I'm doing it

 

[jack]

16 minutes ago, newhome said:

You were trusting! 

 

Yes, but I'd known him for months by that stage, and trusted him completely.

 

We didn't bother with accounts for electrical stuff, as we did a bulk buy for most stuff up front, and it was just bits and pieces after that. It was usually just a matter of him buying an odd thing locally at the last minute.

[Ed Davies]

12 hours ago, newhome said:

Traders on the flat rate vat scheme for example who will have to pay vat on that transaction regardless.

 

Not heard of that. Could you say more?

[Ed Davies]

12 hours ago, Hecateh said:

If the installer is not VAT registered and does supply and fit then I think you are snookered though

 

Indeed. Talked to the local builder/odd-job man for the estate I'm renting off about doing the drains for my build. Hoped he could hire the digger so get that zero-rated but he's not VAT registered himself so that won't work. Smokes like a chimney so took a lot of fag breaks while changing the boiler here but otherwise completely straightforward, experienced and knowledgable and lives only about 2km from my site so would be ideal to help. Pity. Might just pay the VAT anyway.

[newhome]

Make sure he has insurance, just in case! Unless you are covered to the hilt. 

[newhome]

The flat rate vat scheme is available to ‘low cost traders’ and as the name suggests they pay HMRC at a fixed rate. This is supposed to make it much more straightforward to work out how much VAT is owed. The problem for traders operating under the scheme is that if they zero rate a job they still have to pay HMRC the flat rate, so not many traders using the scheme will want to work on zero rated jobs. 

 

https://www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge/tax/flat-rate-vat-scheme-limited-cost-trader-test/

 

https://www.gov.uk/vat-flat-rate-scheme