Feel sick with worry about escalating build costs

[Hecateh]

22 minutes ago, Jude1234 said:

Thanks for the support @Hecateh I am feeling more positive about managing the remainder of the build. The tiler that is coming is on a day rate of  £180 which is what was quoted earlier. Just getting quotes independently for all of the other work and take it from there.

I don't think I slept more than 2 or 3 hours a night when it all kicked off.  Still waking early but at least I feel more in control during the day and getting around 6 hours LOL

 

My control board at the moment is a big mirror in my lounge and multi coloured sharpies.  it's my 'in the face'  TO DO list .  People to phone; issues to raise; supplies to buy; questions to ask; all get scrawled on there and every 2 or 3 days I remove the resolved issues and make room for more.

 

One of the big issues of doing it yourself is making sure people understand from the start that YOU buy everything.  You have to make the purchase in order to reclaim the VAT.  Get yourself accounts set up with Toolstation, Screwfix, Travis Perkins, MKM (if there is one close) and Wickes at the very least.  You can then order stuff online for them to pick up if necessary.  If there are any close to you definitely register with them - you can pick stuff up rather than the trades doing it on time you have paid for.  

 

From my (very limited) experience.  Toolstation is cheapest on the things they supply but them and Screwfix are fixed prices.  MKM, Travis Perkins etc can negotiate so always get quotes first.  

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Hecateh

[Tyke2]

The plot I’m looking at now has no mains gas, or  sewers available. 

I have a few buildings in my work portfolio with renewables , such as solar thermal- never worked, ASHP - works ok.  Biomas - works 10% of the time. So I am a little sceptical to be honest.

 

 

[newhome]

I would have an ASHP if I could get someone to fit one without needing a mortgage but the costs don’t stack up otherwise. I would look at ASHP and PV in your situation only because that’s what I would do if I was starting again. 

[ProDave]

Definitely consider an ASHP if you have no gas.  Any competent plumber can fit one if you are not intending to claim the RHI you only need an over priced MCS install if you want to claim the RHI then you have to weigh up is the inflated cost worth it for the RHI payments you might receive.

[Ferdinand]

11 hours ago, Hecateh said:

spoken as a true bachelor  although to be fair my kids would have done it happily when they were younger (as preteens though rather than teenagers) ----- way before I would have dared taking anything like this on.

 

Oh good ... the mistress has mistresses have not been discovered. ? ? ?

 

You need to have been brought up by my mother ... she it was that found a Derbyshire Hall that had been empty for 2 years.

 

We moved in on January 30th.

 

If it is any consolation, that renovation took about 25 years.

 

F

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

22 hours ago, newhome said:

 

Is there any evidence to suggest that the council ever enforces anything if you move in before completion? If the dwelling has PP isn’t that all they are interested in really? When I got into a bit of a stand off with the council over the Form Q I said that if it couldn’t be resolved (they wanted the SE to do something that he said wasn’t possible within the scheme rules) I would just have to stay living here without completion. They seemed not bothered by that and in fact my neighbours lived next door with no completion certificate for 10 years (and no temporary habitation certificate either). Their view of a habitable dwelling is not the same as building control sign off, it seems to be when walls are plastered and there is potable water, where council tax is concerned anyway.  

 

That is a fair point, and I do not know  But it seemed wise to mention it.

 

My list of "needs" is drawn from what I would regard as a minimum, and what would be required by a mortgage lender (insight from which auction properties are / are not mortgageable).

 

One way to check might be to have a conversation with a planner about when they would enforce. I think the test on enforcement is "is it expedient", so they have a lot of leeway.

 

I would expect a greater likelihood of enforcement by planning or environmental health if there are complaints about nuisance or noise, if there is a safety issue, or if there is a situation which may go on interminably. And the process would take months.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Ferdinand]

@Jude1234

 

Been reflecting on the "getting under control and saving money" process. Trying to work towards something a little more defined, and the decisions made will be informed by how drastic the changes are you need to make. Very much a work in progress.

 

1 - Create a list of work packages or items still to do, alongside the stuff about what you are committed to and your estimates. We have talked about this up thread. Ideally 1 needs to be complete and in a spreadsheet so dependencies and totals can be buggered-about-with, but I guess that "must haves for the build" can be safely identified to a degree. The overall aim is to avoid spending *any* money unnecessarily, and to identify the stuff that can be not-done now.

 

2 - Categorise each work package as:

 

a - Must haves for the build - stuff you have to do to build the house eg cannot leave insulation out of the walls or stub electrical wiring to things you are delaying which is going behind plasterboard.

b - Must haves for your personal needs or regulatory / planning requirements. That is eg at least one bathroom, some sort of cooker etc , but also things to meet planning conditions etc when they are required.

c - Things that can be delayed. What I call WIBNIs (Would It Be Nice If). Everything else, and may include "requirements" or "essentials" that can be delayed. eg you *could* leave the rendering on your garage for some time if it is still weathertight, or all the other bathrooms.

 

3 - Use 1-10 list to decide what to do with each work package.

 

4 - Review, reflect and rebudget.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Tyke2]

19 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

That is a fair point, and I do not know  But it seemed wise to mention it.

 

My list of "needs" is drawn from what I would regard as a minimum, and what would be required by a mortgage lender (insight from which auction properties are / are not mortgageable).

 

One way to check might be to have a conversation with a planner about when they would enforce. I think the test on enforcement is "is it expedient", so they have a lot of leeway.

 

I would expect a greater likelihood of enforcement by planning or environmental health if there are complaints about nuisance or noise, if there is a safety issue, or if there is a situation which may go on interminably. And the process would take months.

 

Ferdinand

 

I think it fair to say that the planning authority has so little resource due to austerity cutbacks that they weill have little or no appetite or capacity to be bothered by such things. Unless there is a proper nuisance or H&S situation, or a local councillor takes a dislike to you.  Maybe if it was in a particular sensive conservation area etc. I moved in ages before the competion cert as I delayed the final certificate so I could get as much done prior to submitting my VAT claim.

[Hecateh]

10 hours ago, Tyke2 said:

I fancy wet UFH downstairs, but radiators upstairs. Im not sure how easy this is as they would run at different water temps. If i go with Solar thermal too it gets more complicated. Id probably use someone with expertise to design a system and work with someone local to install it. But if the instal cost is prohibitive I'll go standard gas combi with thermal store as i have now.

 

My lower level, which is insulated slab, I had a company come and lay the pipe and screed it, that cost £2000 approx 30sqm,  The entry level was supplied by Wunda and they designed it.  Handyman has done mine Materials and drawing around £1000 for a further 30sqm.  The rest is standard gas safe plumber work.  PM me if you would like to visit.

[Carrerahill]

On 02/09/2018 at 14:04, Jude1234 said:

Our house is being built by a main contractor who provided one of those HBXL estimates at the beginning of the project.  It was very clear what was included and excluded.  However now that we are 3/4 of the way through and I asked him for an update on the situation on the build vs the estimates and we are way over.  Firstly it said on the front sheet that in the estimate they had allowed approx £17,000 for sanitary ware.  I had sourced these on the internet for about £7000 so I felt good that I had 'saved' £10,000 from the budget.  Then they said the garage would cost about £10,000, now they are saying it will cost £18,000, of which we have already paid about half, so no turning back we are committed to having a big garage.  We have also committed to all the bathroom and kitchen items (all bought and in case of the kitchen fitted).  Because we are both absolutely useless at anything in the house we are reliant on trades to finish off, there is nothing that we would feel comfortable doing ourselves, not even the painting as we don't want to ruin it.  I am trying to think of ways to reduce costs but really struggling.  If we delay some stuff then we will be in our rental for longer (which is driving us mad) and we will still need to pay for stuff eventually.  |I am kicking myself that I have not kept a closer eye on costs earlier on and asked how much everything was going to cost before I agreed to it.  For example we chose lovely brushed chrome sockets, light switches etc but have no idea the cost.  The electrician went ahead and ordered them and now they can't be returned (I did ask if we could change to cheaper plastic ones upstairs for instance).

 

I feel so responsible for getting us in to this mess as it was me that wanted to self build, my husband would have been happier to buy something that would have been cheaper.  He has left all of the planning etc to me as he is so busy and stressed at work.  I don't feel I can talk to him about it and get him more stressed.

 

I am sorry to read this, this sort of thing can indeed cause someone a great deal of stress and anxiety.  Sadly this is a fairly typical story in the construction industry be it domestic or commercial projects. 

 

Usually it starts with the client asking for the highest quality build with lots of high spec fittings and fixtures, then through budgeting (QS), planning etc. it can get whittled down to what can actually be afforded but sometimes, it all makes it through to near completion before the client starts to take an interest in costs and invoices for things - contractors love this as they just go for it and do what they were told, sadly they also often neglect to tell the client what it is now costing (they don't want to cut off their open bank account), so they just keep spending your money.

 

I think it is safe to say you didn't have a strong grip of this project and it sounds like your main contractor (single all trades?) or contractors have just gone for it to get it done for you, possibly, they thought, in your best interest or possibly they just want to take as much money as they can and give you the spec you asked for. I would not worry too much about some brushed chrome sockets and switches as in reality the cost increase from a decent quality white socket/switch is not massive - overall in the whole build it may cost you an extra £300-600 depending on what they bought you. 

 

Here are my thoughts on what your immediate actions should be. Call a meeting with your builder, I would also call in any other professionals you have appointed, do you have an architect or any engineers? Just tell them it is a Progress Meeting - give them an agenda and put into it anything you want to discuss and slot in Cost Reports into the itinerary somewhere!  You can also discuss 'Issues that may impact on costs' 'Warranties' all sorts. Kick off the meeting, you are in charge, I don't know your background but this meeting is your chance to be CEO at a boardroom meeting and get some answers, tough but fair attitude. Don't show your cards,  don't outright suggest budgetary issues, when it comes to costs you can bring up the garage, why is it costing an additional 8k and can anything be done to mitigate these costs. Why are things going over budget and work through them all - frankly they always do and no plan survives first contact, unless it is a very well detailed and quantified program has been put together, but even then, there are factors beyond our control.

 

Make sure you give them an agenda say today and call the meeting for Friday AM or Monday next AM - by telling them you will want to hear a cost report you are effectively asking them to bring budgetary information - make sure they know this - i.e. suggest they bring all supporting documentation as you don't want any "I'll need to find out answers" they MIGHT bring quotes and invoices for materials but it depends if they are incorporating a cover for themselves into them, then they may not want to. Take all your budgetary information, your quote from the builder etc too and have your facts and figures hand written in front of you in a big A4 note pad - this is a good trick as people often cannot read handwriting easily across a table, it also looks like it may just be your notes and that you actually know all the information you are discussion off the top of your head putting you in a stronger position.

 

 

 

[Tyke2]

1 hour ago, Hecateh said:

My lower level, which is insulated slab, I had a company come and lay the pipe and screed it, that cost £2000 approx 30sqm,  The entry level was supplied by Wunda and they designed it.  Handyman has done mine Materials and drawing around £1000 for a further 30sqm.  The rest is standard gas safe plumber work.  PM me if you would like to visit.

Hi I will come and have a look if thats ok.

Im as much interested in the next stage also. I.e how it all plumbs in together. UFH,Thermal store, radaitors ands perhaps Solar.

The issues I have on work installs are that each technology is fine on its own, but getting them to work together is more difficult.

[Stones]

2 hours ago, Tyke2 said:

I think it fair to say that the planning authority has so little resource due to austerity cutbacks that they weill have little or no appetite or capacity to be bothered by such things. Unless there is a proper nuisance or H&S situation, or a local councillor takes a dislike to you.  Maybe if it was in a particular sensive conservation area etc. I moved in ages before the competion cert as I delayed the final certificate so I could get as much done prior to submitting my VAT claim.

 

The Planning Authority will only enforce breaches of planning control.  Moving into an 'unfinished' house is not a breach of planning control.  It may well be a breach of the Building Regulations, and Building Standards do have enforcement powers.  In Scotland, you can apply for Authorisation for Temporary Occupation or Use from Building Standards to allow you to occupy before final completion.  To get the authorisation, you have to meet certain standards - safety related (electrical certificate for example).  

[Hecateh]

6 hours ago, newhome said:

 Fans are only allowed as a special order if you’re pregnant or menopausal - yes really! ? 

 

Medically essential - do they require a doctor's certificate? lol

[newhome]

19 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

 

Medically essential - do they require a doctor's certificate? lol

 

God knows! 

[PeterW]

[Thread split into new one re heating design]