zoothorn Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 That's the same one you said don't buy at all costs tho!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, zoothorn said: That's the same one you said don't buy at all costs tho!! When I thought you were drilling STAINLESS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Aha.. so you think I'll be ok with these amtechs then? its 3-4mm fancy composite/ plastic basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Right gonna buy these/ if Im careful should be ok. Cheers onoff, good nod that after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Onoff said: Run round with a centre punch on the line at about 3mm between each one 1. A centre punch will struggle to mark a composite sink 2. If it does, it’s likely to crack it..... Better option is to look to see if you can mount the tap behind the sink instead in the worktop and drill that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, PeterW said: Peter that's an interesting idea, but I've gone 35mm holesaw, bought a crappy ebay one.. I'll be v. slow & should be ok. Is the idea with these the centre drill bit stays put into the centremark whilst outer ring's drilled same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, PeterW said: 1. A centre punch will struggle to mark a composite sink 2. If it does, it’s likely to crack it..... Better option is to look to see if you can mount the tap behind the sink instead in the worktop and drill that. As said above I thought it was a st/st sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 minute ago, zoothorn said: Peter that's an interesting idea, but I've gone 35mm holesaw, bought a crappy ebay one.. I'll be v. slow & should be ok. Is the idea with these the centre drill bit stays put into the centremark whilst outer ring's drilled same time? Yes that's the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Where to cut pipes: Peter I think said "at food trap" so that could be @ either the last upright sections ~8" below taps.. or @ the start of the horizontal 6" bit. Both are same distance from the food trap (the btm of sink line, if that's what a food trap is). I can't get a cutter on the last uprights as pipes too close together, so is the start of the horizontal bits the idea..? or lower, on the vertical bits? how do I get the tap section off too, to see how to unhook the last upright bits-? I'm finding where to cut very hard to judge: if I cut before the horizontal section, on the vertical prior bits.. then I need to go way down to accomodate the new isolation valve > a section > elbow (to go R) > another section > elbow (to go UP) > another section > attatchement (whatever this is) for the flex pipe hex nut to then fit onto. That's very costly surely x2. That seems WAY overcomplicated to me considering I've got all the plumbing bits where they are/ in theory its just cut them @ tops, fit ISO valves > flex pipe fits onto this (but does it fit onto these?). Can you get isolation valves, from this H20 company, that incorporated an elbow in with an isolation valve? or are all isolation valves a short straight end-to-end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 19 hours ago, PeterW said: Not wishing to rain on your parade but that pipework is a little green... I would clean the pipes up level with that waste trap with some fine wet and dry and then when they are clean I would cut them off and put the isolators on. Then rebuild with clean pipe and a couple of elbows. Peter, when you say 'clean pipes up level with waste trap' I'm not understanding where you mean as I don't know what a waste trap is (googled it/ it could a part of the U bend, the black sections, or the strainer in the sink/ not clear).. so I'm not sure where you suggest to cut. There are 3 sections I have. 1st is upright, 2nd is across, 3rd is upright. Can you pinpoint from my pic, which to cut at? If 1st or 2nd.. how far up/ down/ across? if we say relative to the black under sink stuff (this is level with the 2nd across sections). thanks zoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 44 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Peter, when you say 'clean pipes up level with waste trap' I'm not understanding where you mean as I don't know what a waste trap is (googled it/ it could a part of the U bend, the black sections, or the strainer in the sink/ not clear).. so I'm not sure where you suggest to cut. There are 3 sections I have. 1st is upright, 2nd is across, 3rd is upright. Can you pinpoint from my pic, which to cut at? If 1st or 2nd.. how far up/ down/ across? if we say relative to the black under sink stuff (this is level with the 2nd across sections). thanks zoot Ok Turn the water off, open both taps and let the water drain down from the pipes above - may have to open an upstairs tap (if there is one) Put the plug in the sink ... Put a bucket under the white U trap Remove the white trap by undoing the two white nuts (arrowed in blue) You should now see two vertical copper pipes - I expect they are coming up through the bottom of the cabinet.... if so we will cross that bridge in a bit ..! clean the pipes of all crud and solder runs where they are marked at the level of the red arrow. If there are solder runs further down the pipe then you may have to clean lower. cut them one at a time cleanly with the pipe slice then push on the Hep2O valve with it open, then close the valve. You should now be able to remove the cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Aha great thanks Peter that makes more sense.. I would've struggled with a load of new H20 bits all wrong with the white placcy stuff still connected up. Good so I can just get 2x H20 valves tmrw, & hopefully can make good progress over the weekend. If I get all the h20 bits at once I'm fuddled. One thing tho.. how long are these h20 valves? I need to make room enough for a pipe section > then RH elbow to get on just below the new sink, which is deeper (plus the worktop is less H). Or am I looking for a isolation valve with an elbow on then end of it/ 1 unit.. do these exist? ideal if so/ more room to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 If it's these Hep2O valves you are getting then they're 112mm long and the copper goes in each end about 33mm. The blue thing is from the removal tool kit you need to buy seperate. So you need to remove 46mm from a section of pipe to fit the valve in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Valve adds about 30mm when it’s got pipe in both sides so your clean copper needs to be a good 150mm from the base of the sink to work easily. I would add isolator, pipe, elbow and then swing it back toward the back of the cupboard then upward to the hose tails with another elbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, PeterW said: Valve adds about 30mm when it’s got pipe in both sides so your clean copper needs to be a good 150mm from the base of the sink to work easily. I would add isolator, pipe, elbow and then swing it back toward the back of the cupboard then upward to the hose tails with another elbow The ones I've pictured add 46mm??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Onoff said: The ones I've pictured add 46mm??? I’m sat on a train in the middle of nowhere and was guessing from memory what they added ... given @zoothorn isn’t into the precision engineering that you are, I don’t think 16mm matters here ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Got more issues to face before I can cut/ shift out cabinets.. jeesus I didn't look down here yet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Got more issues to face before I can cut/ shift out cabinets.. jeesus I didn't look down here yet: No bother Do all the stuff up to removing the waste. Clean and cut the blue arrows first, adding the valve to the bottom horizontal pipe. Cut the red arrow as close to the top of the shelf as you can. Remove the shelf, this should then let you put the valve on the red arrowed pipe. Close valves and relax... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 The bottom across section of pipe, between the elbows, is only 13.5cm.. this is what I was worried about re. the HPs20 vlaves being maybe too long.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Why ..? It’s not going back in ... new pipe, new location. That nice shiny hole saw can cut some new holes in the shelf too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) I have found 2 valves here.. didn't see them before. Q: does this now simplify, or change my procedure? Edited August 24, 2018 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) I still cannot see how to remove the cabinets, or the sink, without tearing the shelf & back panel apart due to the pipes in very tight holes.. such as pic above, & here below.. Is that the idea/ rip out & replace shelf & back panel-? Edited August 24, 2018 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 Ok progress.. Ive turned these 2 islolators 1/4 turn & water off @ both taps now. But I'm still unsure where/ how to go on from here, having found these 2 isolators. So can I proceed with undoing the sink with just these isolators as they are? is just using these 2 wee things to shut off water sufficient.. or should I be turning outside tap off (& one on the HW tank iirc)? Thanks zoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 Is anyone out there who can help me out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Isolators off means water off so undo the nut this side but hold the valve so it doesn’t turn with another spanned or grips but try not to mash the screw head on the valve. Then waste out to the wall if possible - it’s £3 a length so busting it isn’t an issue - and get that unit out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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