CRL underwriter declared bankrupt

[PeterW]

Is that warranty from a point where there is a build that’s been started ..?

[Leedub]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

Is that warranty from a point where there is a build that’s been started ..?

 

My build has already finished so I am going to have to source retrospective cover.

[newhome]

3 minutes ago, Leedub said:

 

My build has already finished so I am going to have to source retrospective cover.

 

Do you need to have cover? Can’t you just cross that bridge when / if you come to sell? 

[Temp]

On 15/07/2018 at 23:15, newhome said:

Check who yours is underwritten by. It's Alpha Insurance who have gone bust not CRL. See if you can get a refund. If you can that would appear to be a good result if you don't actually need the warranty but you will probably need one if you need to remortgage within 10 years of completion. 

 

Seems to be problems with both...

 

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/uk/news/breaking-news/troubles-at-cbl-see-alpha-insurance-go-into-liquidation-93956.aspx

 

[Temp]

BuildIt article..

 

https://www.self-build.co.uk/alpha-insurance-liquidation-structural-warranty-advice/

 

Note the quote from CRL that says self builders "do not need to do anything at present" and see the paragraph that follows.

 

Edit: Just noticed that was their response to Buildit in 2015!

Edited July 17, 2018 by Temp

[divorcingjack]

When I was looking for a warranty, CRL were one of the more widely accepted ones in the mortgage market, which is why I went with them! So infuriating. @newhome I will definitely need a warranty as I need to mortgage when we have finished the build to repay family that lent us the cash to do the build.

 

@Leedub - what type is your build? I remember build zone were funny about the insulated foundation and wouldn't quote me. 

 

I'll get some quotes today and update here. 

[newhome]

35 minutes ago, Temp said:

Seems to be problems with both...

 

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/uk/news/breaking-news/troubles-at-cbl-see-alpha-insurance-go-into-liquidation-93956.aspx

 

 

So it seems that:

 

CRL is the broker and FCA regulated so they are governed by strict conduct rules. They are still trading. 

Alpha is the insurance company providing the cover 

CBL is the reinsurer 

 

By the sounds of it Alpha and CBL are both in trouble. CRL is still trading and appear to have found another insurance company to take the policies on but at an additional premium. That doesn’t feel right to me at all if I’m honest, certainly not in a moral sense even if it’s within the rules. 

 

 

[divorcingjack]

That's my thinking, @newhome. Surely I took on a contract for CRL to provide me with a warranty - how they do that is no concern of mine, and certainly not at an additional cost to me. However, from the earlier links it looks like CRL warranties are not being accepted within the mortgage market, so there's no point me having one. Looks like a dig through credit card statements this evening. 

 

Bugger. 

[Temp]

Warranties are only ever as good as the company that writes them.

 

The Danish protection scheme appears to cover part of the premium if you can't get it back from the credit card co...

http://www.skadesgarantifonden.dk/english/Sider/QAs.aspx

The Fund covers premiums paid before the issue of the bankruptcy order but with an excess of DKK 1,000 per policy. However, only such part of the premium as corresponds to the remaining part of the insurance period is covered by the Fund.

 

1000 DKK is about £120.

 

It may also cover claims but only for 4 weeks or so after the company goes bust.

 

 

 

 

 

[Triassic]

On 16/07/2018 at 07:52, Triassic said:

The firm said it has ceased all underwriting of new business, including renewals. A day after the decision, Alpha Insurance general assembly also placed the company into solvent liquidation.

“This means that Alpha Insurance from this date will be in run-off,” it said. “The company is solvent, and we, therefore, expect that all present and future obligations will be honoured.”

So it’s not gone bust, it’s honoring all present and future obligations!

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Triassic

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, Triassic said:

So it’s not gone bust, it’s honoring all present and future obligations!

 

But that's no use if mortgage companies won't accept their policies because frankly that's what 99% of people have a warranty for. 

[Hecateh]

2 hours ago, Temp said:

It may also cover claims but only for 4 weeks or so after the company goes bust

 

1 hour ago, Triassic said:

So it’s not gone bust, it’s honoring all present and future obligations!

 

 

It's gone into liquidation but "it’s honoring all present and future obligations!" 

 

CRL are telling people no need to do anything at present

 

"It may also cover claims but only for 4 weeks or so after the company goes bust."

 

Is this an attempt to make sure that people don't do anything until after the 4 week period and then they can say they are not liable.

 

I've still heard nothing from them.  I suspect the first I will hear is from my lending company who will demand I buy another useless policy as the CRL one (that was on their recommended list) is no longer valid.  They can get lost if they do.

[newhome]

1 minute ago, Hecateh said:

I've still heard nothing from them.  I suspect the first I will hear is from my lending company who will demand I buy another useless policy as the CRL one (that was on their recommended list) is no longer valid.  They can get lost if they do.

 

Have you checked your insurance policy? Is yours definitely with Alpha? 

 

The FCA dictates that firms must treat their customers fairly. In this scenario it could mean that if one customer received advice well after others in the same position and it put them at a disadvantage they could be able to cite that they were treated unfairly. Firms are also obliged to ensure that consumers are provided with products that perform as firms have led them to expect. When did you buy the policy vs the date that CBL's credit rating was significantly downgraded on 26th Feb? 

 

 

 

[Hecateh]

Yep definitely with Alpha

 

Policy bought in December last year

 

If the firm has gone bust what difference does it make if they have treated us unfairly - there is no money anyway

[Temp]

Quote

"It may also cover claims but only for 4 weeks or so after the company goes bust."

 

 

Is this an attempt to make sure that people don't do anything until after the 4 week period and then they can say they are not liable.

 

 

My understanding is that the Danish scheme covers claims up to a date (4 weeks from them being told about the insolvency) and premiums until the end of the policy.

 

This makes sense for something like car insurance. Basically it gives you 4 weeks to find a new policy and the premium back to pay for it. So in theory you are no worse off/don't loose anything

.

For a structural warranty it's problematic as you can't so easily move to a new provider.

 

I think anyone with a policy from Alpha that is underwritten by CBL should ask Alpha if they have a new underwriter. If they do then ask about new paperwork. If not then I suspect all cover for claims ends after the 4 weeks are up. Alternatively you should get your premium back from either Alpha or the Danish scheme.

 

This is just my interpretation of what I can find on the web. I might be wrong!

 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Temp

[Hecateh]

I still haven't had an email from them at all BUT I got a text from their inspector yesterday saying that he is coming today - I'll see if I can find anything out from him.  

[divorcingjack]

My inspector knew absolutely nothing, so don't get your hopes up! I hope they are helpful for you. 

 

[Hecateh]

Suspect this will be the same - or he will have a script.  I only saw him briefly last time he came as BB was still in control then.  

 

He was being picky about something to do with the tanking as far as a remember - even though it was done to SE calcs

[Bitpipe]

I was originally going with C-R-L (as my BC could do the inspections foc) but their quote shot up before I took out the policy so I shopped around..

 

Got equivalent from Trade Direct Insurance, Insurer was Ark Insurance Group and policy was about £3600 in October 2015.

 

Just received a letter from TDI saying that another company called Elite Insurance, who were the ultimate underwriters, went into administration back in July 2017!  

 

The broker is 'in conversation' with Ark and Armour Risk Management who took over the Elite policy. They have only just been informed of the situation so are less than impressed.

 

FSCS also involved, advise is to contact them if I wish but the broker is looking into recovering finances and finding alternative insurance.

 

Luckily, I paid by CC so have that to fall back on.

 

Also, when I re-mortgaged recently, the valuer just asked if I had a structural warranty. Never asked for details or to see the certificate.

 

Will keep you posted on progress - TBH I only really took out the policy as I believed that it was needed for mortgage purposes or selling - I'm not that confident that it would ever be of much use in making a claim. 

 

[HerbJ]

We also have an Ark Residential New Build  Defect Insurance Policy,  underwritten by Elite Insurance and  TDI were the insurance brokers, who arranged cover.  The Premium of £2968 was also paid on CC in May 2015.

 

Our Building Completion Certificate was provided to Ark in February 2017, in accordance with the Policy Documents,  and we received the Residential Latent Defects Insurance Certificate on  8 March 2017.This is defined as "practical completion" in the insurance policy.The endorsement on the original Policy Documents issued in May 2015 states:  "The insurance will commence on completion of the Residential Property, the issue of the Approval Certificate and the payment of the premium in full. The Certificate of Insurance will then be issued in confirmation."

 

We've had no correspondence from TDI,  so I spoke with them this morning, following @Bitpipe post  yesterday and a brief conversation with him this morning.  There was nothing on our file to indicate that there was a problem and TDI confirmed they had received  no communication from Ark or Elite Insurance relating to our LDI policy. TDI have now followed up with Ark Insurance Group to determine the status of our insurance cover, and reported as follows:

• We are still covered, as we provided the Completion Certificate in February 2017 and a valid Residential Latent Defects Insurance Certificate was issued by Elite Insurance before they went into administration in July 2017.
• The Elite Insurance risks were taken over by Armour Risk Management, who are now the insurance underwriter for our LDI Policy.
• The difference between @bitpipe and our situation is that he has not been issued with a Building Completion Certificate to date and so had not been able to provide this to the underwriters before July 2017.   This is was what @Bitpipe and I  thought may be the case when we talked earlier....

Edited July 30, 2018 by HerbJ

[divorcingjack]

Just an update on this from my end. I've been contacted by Barclaycard to say that they can't cover the premium because CRL (who the transaction was with) are a broker and have "technically" fulfilled their obligation to us - ie. to introduce us to the provider of the insurance. Buggeration. CRL are saying that they are in talks with the FSCS to cover the premium, but that is only £700 out of the £2400 that I paid! The rest is CRL fees

 

The chap from Barclaycard has actually been very helpful because although barclaycard themselves can't cover it, he has formally applied for a chargeback from CRL, although not hopeful that this will work. So - can anyone suggest next steps for me? My thinking is that I should be entitled to the CRL fees back as they are not providing me with the service that they were charged for, but getting hold of anyone there is a nightmare. 

 

Anyone else had any further developments? 

 

dj 

[Fallingditch]

I am new to this information, but I also am affected by the bankruptcy of Alpha A/S.

 

On the Alpha group website, there are three links. The one at the bottom of the page is to the The Financial Services Compensation Scheme page, last updated 4/9/2018.

 

The section on latent defect currently reads:

How are UK customers of Alpha Insurance protected for premium refunds on their latent defect / structural damage policies?

FSCS is working closely with both CRL Management Ltd and the Alpha Liquidator to ensure that eligible policyholders either receive a premium refund or benefit from a replacement policy arranged by their broker.

Please keep checking this page for updates on this.

 

From reading through the entire thread, I didn't spot anything which suggested that the FSCS was trying to arrange a refund.

 

So its sit tight fingers crossed I guess. (PS I paid CRL with a BACS transfer). 

[Hecateh]

3 hours ago, Fallingditch said:

I am new to this information, but I also am affected by the bankruptcy of Alpha A/S.

 

On the Alpha group website, there are three links. The one at the bottom of the page is to the The Financial Services Compensation Scheme page, last updated 4/9/2018.

 

The section on latent defect currently reads:

How are UK customers of Alpha Insurance protected for premium refunds on their latent defect / structural damage policies?

FSCS is working closely with both CRL Management Ltd and the Alpha Liquidator to ensure that eligible policyholders either receive a premium refund or benefit from a replacement policy arranged by their broker.

Please keep checking this page for updates on this.

 

From reading through the entire thread, I didn't spot anything which suggested that the FSCS was trying to arrange a refund.

 

So its sit tight fingers crossed I guess. (PS I paid CRL with a BACS transfer). 

 

I wish they'd give me a refund.  I only got it because the loan I was getting to build my property demanded it, the loan is now paid off

[Jeremy Harris]

The insurance business really is a bit scary.  We used a broker for buildings and contents insurance and they sent me a renewal recently which was 30% higher than last year.  I rang them to find out why and they told me that the insurer I'd been with (technically still are with for another couple of days) went into liquidation some time ago, so they had to go out to another company.  The fact that they didn't bother to tell me this until renewal time hacked me off, to the point where I've taken out a policy with someone else now.

[Bitpipe]

On 29/07/2018 at 19:12, Bitpipe said:

I was originally going with C-R-L (as my BC could do the inspections foc) but their quote shot up before I took out the policy so I shopped around..

 

Got equivalent from Trade Direct Insurance, Insurer was Ark Insurance Group and policy was about £3600 in October 2015.

 

Just received a letter from TDI saying that another company called Elite Insurance, who were the ultimate underwriters, went into administration back in July 2017!  

 

The broker is 'in conversation' with Ark and Armour Risk Management who took over the Elite policy. They have only just been informed of the situation so are less than impressed.

 

FSCS also involved, advise is to contact them if I wish but the broker is looking into recovering finances and finding alternative insurance.

 

Luckily, I paid by CC so have that to fall back on.

 

Also, when I re-mortgaged recently, the valuer just asked if I had a structural warranty. Never asked for details or to see the certificate.

 

Will keep you posted on progress - TBH I only really took out the policy as I believed that it was needed for mortgage purposes or selling - I'm not that confident that it would ever be of much use in making a claim. 

 

 

So subsequent to this post I got a letter from broker saying that as my build commenced before they went pop the new insurer would issue a policy. So far so good.

 

Sent completion cert in Sept and after lots of chasing was told today that ...

 

>

As you are aware we have presented your Completion Certificate to the insurers who have unfortunately advised us that due to the time taken to complete the build, with the property being exposed to the elements for a time that makes the risk now unacceptable to them and therefore they are unwilling to issue the Structural Warranty cover for the property.

 

They have advised that they will be refunding the premium paid.

>

 

Now this is nonsense as our build was watertight after 6 weeks (jan 2016) and we moved in Aug ‘16.

 

BC delay was due to external elements (glass).

 

Have gone back to broker to understand where this assumption came from and will rope in our inspector but also wondering if I should just take the money back and forget about a warranty.

 

No plans to sell and we already have a post build mortgage but a bit concerned if we need to produce proof of it in the next 10 years...

 

Would the MBC structural guarantee give the same reassurance to a lender (is it insurance backed??)

Edited November 27, 2018 by Bitpipe