SteamyTea Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) At least the problem is now officially recognised, even if the solution is way off the mark. https://www.airqualitynews.com/2018/05/22/defra-launches-clean-air-strategy/ Edited May 22, 2018 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 only the cleanest domestic fuels’ will be available for sale, preventing the emission of harmful particulate matter I wonder how that will impact the sale of wood and coal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, ProDave said: I wonder how that will impact the sale of wood and coal? Not sure. My proposed house has three chimneys so time perhaps to reduce that to one working and two false chimney stacks. Last week about two tons of firewood fell into my hands through a stroke of luck which I should be able to eek out a few years (but to be used only when climatic conditions won't cause regional respiratory distress promise Lizzie). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 hour ago, ProDave said: I wonder how that will impact the sale of wood and coal? Not at all, I would think. Very few people burn coal these days and most sellers of wood claim that it's dry! We're thinking of moving to a house that doesn't demand constant grounds maintenance and have been looking at available houses in the vicinity (virtually looking, of course!). It seems that most of the upmarket developments, while claiming low running costs, have a feature wood burner. Complete insanity of course; the heat should be unnecessary, they'll make a mess in the immaculate interiors and the plots are usually to small to have anywhere to store the wood. One of them had this gem of inept design, whilst claiming to be low energy - built with SIPs and using a GSHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 One of my neigbours was smoking (a lot of) weed at the weekend. It was really quite unpleasant with it drifting across our garden. Imagine that going into your mvhr intake! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) For me, ban wood burners completely, even existing ones (maybe im biased though because it means we can't even have MVHR since smoke is all around us in the winter)! They are far too dirty for the modern era, people only use them because they are cheap to run! Edited May 24, 2018 by MikeGrahamT21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 There is a time and a place for a wood burner. In a town or city or the bottom of a sheltered valley may not be it. But up here in the sparsely populated Highlands, where neighbours are not close, and it's nearly always windy, they really are not a nuisance to neighbours. Of course any law passed will be based on regulating their use in Central London, then be applied equally everywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I can categorically tell you that wood burners are the least of the issue ..! NoX and particulate from vehicles is vastly higher than industry which is again vastly higher than domestic emissions. The low hanging fruit is vehicles - this is underway and there is zero desire from UKGov to touch industry so the next target is domestic as it’s an easy hit as there is very little by way of coordinated lobbying at domestic level to push back so it’s an easy win. Banning wood burning stoves in domestic environments will make less than 0.1% impact on current levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 On 22/05/2018 at 15:39, Onoff said: One of my neigbours was smoking (a lot of) weed at the weekend. It was really quite unpleasant with it drifting across our garden. Imagine that going into your mvhr intake! 'one of my neighbours'... Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, PeterW said: Banning wood burning stoves in domestic environments will make less than 0.1% impact on current levels. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So where is that 0.1% figure from and what does it relate to. 2 hours ago, ProDave said: There is a time and a place for a wood burner. Isn't that like claiming there is a time and place for antisocial behaviour i.e football matches, Friday night in a rough pub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: Isn't that like claiming there is a time and place for antisocial behaviour i.e football matches, Friday night in a rough pub. No. It is more like saying there is a time and place for hot air ballooning e.g. best done 2 hours before sunset and try not to land on the main runway at Heathrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So where is that 0.1% figure from and what does it relate to. Start with the UK Air Quality database as a source for the data. Industry emission data is already available as a source - not sure its publicly available. There are a number of data reports around vehicle emissions and NoX / Particulate that give current and forecast. Statista will also provide install data and other information pertinent to the calcs. NAEI is also worth using for validation - again, it’s all publicly available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markruth Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 On 24/05/2018 at 09:56, MikeGrahamT21 said: For me, ban wood burners completely, even existing ones (maybe im biased though because it means we can't even have MVHR since smoke is all around us in the winter)! They are far too dirty for the modern era, people only use them because they are cheap to run! Ban completely ? i completely disagree and we don't use a log burner because they are cheap, visually ours enhances our home. We actually burn these https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/10/briquettes-clean-fuel-fireplace-wood-burning-stove <10 moisture, burn hot and are made of waste products But hey, lets burn fossil fuels instead ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, markruth said: <10 moisture, burn hot and are made of waste products Is there a figure for PM10 and PM2.5's per kWh energy delivered? 42 minutes ago, markruth said: made of waste products That is quite worrying, I have some waste timber that is covered in lead paint, shall I bring it over for you to burn? 42 minutes ago, markruth said: Ban completely It is the easy, cheap and best solution to this problem. Get this weeks New Scientist to read more in the Analysis section. @PeterW shows your assertion of 0.1% to be the bollocks I knew it was. 42 minutes ago, markruth said: lets burn fossil fuels instead We are heading that way and it will happen. The UK now does not burn much coal for electricity production. It is a start. I really wish people would start to accept that wood burning is unnecessary and unacceptable these days. Edited June 3, 2018 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markruth Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Is there a figure for PM10 and PM2.5's per kWh energy delivered? That is quite worrying, I have some waste timber that is covered in lead paint, shall I bring it over for you to burn? It is the easy, cheap and best solution to this problem. Get this weeks New Scientist to read more in the Analysis section. @PeterW shows your assertion of 0.1% to be the bollocks I knew it was. We are heading that way and it will happen. The UK now does not burn much coal for electricity production. It is a start. I really wish people would start to accept that wood burning is unnecessary and unacceptable these days. If you took the time to read the article i posted you will see that sawdust is the primary byproduct that is used, so you can keep you wood Coal is not the only fossil fuel How much natural gas How much Shale gas If burning wood is so bad why do Drax use BioFuel for generation in one of the largest BioFuel power stations in the world in Yorkshire You better go and picket their gates https://www.drax.com/sustainability/biomass-demand-control/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, markruth said: If burning wood is so bad why do Drax use BioFuel for generation Because the government of the time was ill advised. 36 minutes ago, markruth said: Coal is not the only fossil fuel No it isn't, but if the country is going to get serious about air pollution, then that is the first to go, followed by heavy fuel oils, lighter fuel oils, spirit fuels and then gasses. There has to be a pragmatic approach to all this and using energy delivered per primary energy unit is a pretty good way to go about it. Timber burning in a domestic stove is one of the worse for a number of reasons. 39 minutes ago, markruth said: sawdust is the primary byproduct There are much better uses for saw dust, making sheet material is best. You are trying to defend the indefensible here, it is a bit like vandalism, it is never alright to cause a tiny bit of wilful damage just because other are doing more, is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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