Which version of my house would you prefer to live in?

[epsilonGreedy]

Is the traditional hallway a waste of space in this 1500 sq ft house?

 

We are in an architectural straight jacket due to the village location and conservation area but Swmbo has suggested a revision to the internal room layout and 10 days later I reckon she is right.

 

Plan A below was the original indicative layout created by the plot seller's architect when full planning permission was applied for. Plan B involves eliminating one internal hallway wall to create a more open arrangement with the stairs dropping into the sitting room.  One motivation for this change is the plot orientation means that 90% of foot traffic will enter the house via the rear utility room door, on reflection we realized that the hall in Plan A is wasted space. Plan B also shows the stairs reversed with the lowest step at the rear of the house.

 

Some context info:

 

• 90% of the time it will be just us, a mid 50's couple at home.
• During the working week we expect to spend most time in the kitchen/diner/snug area.
• The south facing patio courtyard ( 8m x 6m) walled on 3 sides is a big attraction of the plot.
• MVHR will redistribute heat and so loss of heat from the sitting room up to the landing through convection is less of a factor I assume.

 

Plan 1 - Traditional Hallway

 

Plan B - Open Plan

[ProDave]

I personally detest stairs going up from a living room. It probably stems from my first house being like this and it was a devil to keep the living room warm with a constant stream of cold air flowing down the stairs. It was always warm on the landing. Perhaps that would not be an issue with a modern well insulated house?

 

You gain more space but it is still a corridor and one less wall to put things against or on.

[Nickfromwales]

I think id do as per B but put a winder at the foot of the stairs and then a short wall opposite the front door. I really dont like people being able to look into my house / up the stairs from my front doorstep. Nice to open the door without checking who's walking around in their boxers first. 

 

That also lends itself to you putting a hard-wearing flooring at the front door, then the living space area can have a different covering that doesn't ever see footwear. 

[ragg987]

I prefer the open plan but would not want the external door straight into my lounge. Some ideas.

• make the stairs a feature into the lounge - e.g. nice oak staircase / glass / open treads etc, lots of options
• make a feature of the space underneath the stairs - e.g. decorative / lighting or maybe practical like storage
• external lean-to / porch (if permitted) so there is a break from the external door to the lounge
• think about the swing to the front door, if you switch sides it may provide some degree of visual barrier into the lounge
• people coming in dump shoes / coats / scarves - where will they go?

40 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

MVHR will redistribute heat

No it will not. Convection could be the major factor, but if yours is a low energy house with no significant temp gradients then I would not be unduly concerned.

Edited May 7, 2018 by ragg987
tipo

[epsilonGreedy]

16 minutes ago, ProDave said:

...it was a devil to keep the living room warm with a constant stream of cold air flowing down the stairs. It was always warm on the landing. Perhaps that would not be an issue with a modern well insulated house?

 

 

Yes something to consider, I cannot judge how well a non passiv house with MVHR will perform in this respect. The concern is mitigated by our intention to spend 4 in 7 weekday evenings in the snug next to the working wood burner. If we manage to get all our financial ducks lined up there is a prospect of spending 6 weeks early/late season on a yacht share in the Med which will reduce annual space heating.

 

22 minutes ago, ProDave said:

You gain more space but it is still a corridor and one less wall to put things against or on.

 

 

We have a cunning plan which is why I have reversed the stairs. We intend to fill the front door aperture with a block cavity wall leaving a decorative faux door to placate the conservation officer. The corridor effect is thus minimized.

[ProDave]

If you want a more open plan feel, open up the present snug to the kitchen and hall as a kitchen / dining / family room, and keep the room to the left as an enclosed quiet snug.

[epsilonGreedy]

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

If you want a more open plan feel, open up the present snug to the kitchen and hall as a kitchen / dining / family room, and keep the room to the left as an enclosed quiet snug.

 

This was Swmbo's first proposal which I vetoed on the basis of fire regs because that would mean a stairs descending into an open plan kitchen. Have I misinterpreted domestic UK fire regs? Even if I am wrong about fire regs I am not sure I want cooking smells wafting upstairs.

 

Anyhow it is good to get my preconceptions challenged here.

[Nickfromwales]

23 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

there is a prospect of spending 6 weeks early/late season on a yacht share in the Med which will reduce annual space heating.

Planning a heating system around you not being in the house when on holiday for x weeks per year is.............bonkers. 

NO!

[epsilonGreedy]

36 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I think id do as per B but put a winder at the foot of the stairs and then a short wall opposite the front door. I really dont like people being able to look into my house / up the stairs from my front doorstep. Nice to open the door without checking who's walking around in their boxers first.

 

 

In a standard urban setting I would agree.

 

To the front of the house there is a large established native hedge and a 1m drop from front door dpc to the village lane. The house it setback 5.5m from the lane which has no pavements.

 

I am thinking about a stairs winder but at the rear end, this is to avoid people stepping off the bottom step directly into the kitchen door aperture. 

[Nickfromwales]

Sorry, missed adding the bit about keeping the stairs as per A, but a winder at the bottom so facing into the living space, eg keeping the kitchen door open and airy.

[epsilonGreedy]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Planning a heating system around you not being in the house when on holiday for x weeks per year is.............bonkers. 

NO!

 

 

Good point, also I hope to be still living in this house when I am too old to hoist a yardarm in the Algarve.

[Ferdinand]

Can we see the upstairs plan and the boundaries please?

 

And presumably your external look is relatively fixed if it is a full PP, but you have leeway on the internals.

 

Are you planning to adjust the atout without a further application. Will the Council have a fit if you decide to try and make changes to the appearance, or does the option potentially exist?

 

In my head I am speculating about putting the main entrance door on the side of the dwelling.

 

F

 

[Ferdinand]

20 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

This was Swmbo's first proposal which I vetoed on the basis of fire regs because that would mean a stairs descending into an open plan kitchen. Have I misinterpreted domestic UK fire regs? Even if I am wrong about fire regs I am not sure I want cooking smells wafting upstairs.

 

Anyhow it is good to get my preconceptions challenged here.

 

You could do lots of things things, but sprinklers would likely be required in the open plan space where it is part of the fire escape route from upper floors or rooms without escape windows.

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Nickfromwales]

4 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

Good point, also I hope to be still living in this house when I am too old to hoist a yardarm in the Algarve.

Make it airtight, chuck loads of DIY PV on the roof, store excess as heat energy in a low loss device ( such as a Samp ) and burn dried out illegal immigrants on the WBS or is that IBS, because theres so many of them and they breed, its practically a renewable heat source  

 

Disclaimer : These are my views and not of the forums. And yes, im bitter.

[epsilonGreedy]

2 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Can we see the upstairs plan and the boundaries please?

 

 

Ok give me 30 minutes to upload these.

 

4 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

And presumably your external look is relatively fixed if it is a full PP, but you have leeway on the internals.

 

 

The maximum negotiation leeway I hope for externally is changing 16mm glazing bars in the sash windows for a lower cost commodity 22mm. The neighbouring plot effected a major internal layout change through a non material change application.

 

8 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Will the Council have a fit if you decide to try and make changes to the appearance, or does the option potentially exist?

 

 

Unlikely. The first planning application was withdrawn due to local hostility and mud slinging about a cookie-cutter gated executive estate ruining the character of the village. The architect then submitted some flowery prose about my house being reduced in scale and re orientated to create a lower impact street scene and more communal engagement with the existing village layout.

[PeterW]

28 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

The neighbouring plot effected a major internal layout change through a non material change application.

 

Not required unless you are changing any obscure glazed windows / rooms or plan to create a different number of units than has permission. 

 

Sorry but your front door idea is a bit barking - do a single or double winder and use the space properly as @Nickfromwales says. 

 

And if that’s anything like passive you will need the tiniest stove you can find.... 

[epsilonGreedy]

40 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Can we see the upstairs plan and the boundaries please?

 

 

The plot layout would not prevent main door access on any side, though in practice most foot traffic will arrive via the patio from the rear parking in front of the garage (to the right side of garage as shown below).

 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Sorry but your front door idea is a bit barking - do a single or double winder and use the space properly as @Nickfromwales says. 

 

 

Which bit barks, you mean bricking it up leaving a faux front door?

[PeterW]

Yes - having a single entry to a house and a “false” door. 

[epsilonGreedy]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Yes - having a single entry to a house and a “false” door. 

 

 

I did stop and think about fire egress routes. Even with the front door bricked in the sitting room is serviced by the french doors, the kitchen has a door which will in practice will be seldom used and then the unofficial main door will be via the utility entrance, this will be my M spec house entrance.

[AliG]

Before I start trying to move things around, why is there another door at the side of the kitchen? I would really alter this area especially with your comments re spending most time there. Why is the kitchen not open to this area which you say is the most attractive aspect of the plot?

 

If the front door is really very rarely used, plan B would be better. The layout is quite American.

 

I would not rearrange house for heating issues, they will be negligible and any changes made for this reason would annoy you forever.

[PeterW]

Why not switch the snug and the lounge and make the whole of the right side one big open plan space ...? Make the WC off the Utility and then the rest is a useable and sizeable living dining and cooking area. 

 

The airing cupboard is also lost space. Move the tank (utility or go with a Sunamp if you have PV) and then make that area into the ensuite and make it Jack and Jill to both bedrooms. 

[Ferdinand]

Sorry but I still feel I need more information ... such as roads and how the cars get in.

 

Could I have a site layout and a location plan ?.

 

I don’t think it is necessarily making best use of the plot; but I need to see the plot in context.

 

F

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Ferdinand

[epsilonGreedy]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

Before I start trying to move things around, why is there another door at the side of the kitchen?

 

 

Good question, there is a vestigial north facing garden that side of the house that will not be particularly private for 5 years until when the new hedge should grown to above car height. That side of the house will get some sun after 17:30 during the summer. We will put a stable door in this door aperture which might prove useful for creating some cross airflow when I burn toast or when the solar gain from the large south facing window overheats the kitchen.

 

2 hours ago, AliG said:

I would really alter this area especially with your comments re spending most time there. Why is the kitchen not open to this area which you say is the most attractive aspect of the plot?

 

 

This comment strikes home, the commercial developer of an adjacent plot got planning permission for the very change you suggest. I had previously ignored his design on the basis this other house is about 20% larger by floor area. Following the forum's input, Swmbo and I now feel the openplan drop of the stairs into the sitting room is sound however we are now questioning the usage of the kitchen/snug area.

 

Plan C involves moving the kitchen into the snug area, 12ft x 13ft so still a decent size for a kitchen. With the kitchen relocated the snug (dayroom) function can be moved to the old kitchen's location and so benefit from the property's 3rd fireplace and the large window facing the sunny patio.

[SteamyTea]

8 hours ago, ProDave said:

I personally detest stairs going up from a living room

So do I, they make a room into a corridor.