Help me find a shower

[ProDave]

I am trying to source the showers for the 2 wet rooms:

 

Requirements:

 

Fed at approx 3 bar from UVC so thermal mixer shower.

 

TWO outlets, a deluge or rainfall head that must be wall mounted, AND a normal shower head on a riser rail.

 

Remote controls, not electric remote, but the tap / valves are to be mounted on the adjacent wall to the shower heads about 1 metre along that wall (so you don't have to reach in and get an armfull of cold water when you turn the shower on)

 

Separate controls for flow, temperature and which head.

 

Must be servicable from the front with a replacement thermal mixer cartridge readily available (I intend to buy 2 showers and one spare cartridge)

 

So far I have tried screwfix, this one comes close but not enough information (does not meet the 3 controls requirement) but at least a known make so spares should be available. https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-adept-rear-fed-built-in-chrome-thermostatic-shower-w-hand-shower-deluge-head/5206g

 

Toolstation - nothing

 

Bathstore - I might be able to get what I want by buying the valves and heads separately, but oh boy the prices.....

 

Victorian plumbing. This looks what I want https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/milan-concealed-shower-valve-with-slide-rail-kit-wall-mounted-fixed-head But can you replace or even get a spare thermostatic cartridge (instructions only tell you how to fit it, not service it)

 

Victoria Plumb told me to update my browser. Sorry you won't get my custom then.

 

Bathrooms.com  At last a make I have heard of, but only 2 controls so which 2 are combined? not enough info https://www.bathrooms.com/showers/shower-sets/bristan-prism-fixed-head-and-adjustable-riser-shower-set---shower-set Or a cheaper unknown make but again only 2 controls. Just what is a "diverter water flow control handle, to switch between two shower functions" sounds awkward to me https://www.bathrooms.com/showers/shower-sets/stirling-essentials-deluxe-two-outlet-shower-set-svid-v300039

 

BES can't find anything there

 

Wickes can't find a kit. Might be able to make it up out of components but too expensive

 

B&Q don't see anything close

 

At the moment the front runner is the Victorian plumbing one, I guess I need to email them about spares first?

 

Anyone got recommendations or advice please?

 

 

 

[Onoff]

Similar to what I'm doing with the remote mounted controls, these:

 

http://www.britishbathroomcompany.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=Rei3411

 

& this riser rail / handset:

 

http://www.britishbathroomcompany.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=A3041

 

Both are Hudson Reed and get the Welshman's OK. 

 

I'm stuck on the rainfall head but likely this ('coz it's cheap), again Hudson Reed:

 

https://www.pebblegrey.co.uk/product/chrome-slim-round-fixed-head-300mm-diameter?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIruab_5_Y2QIVqL3tCh31xwMPEAQYCCABEgL0HfD_BwE

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Onoff

[ProDave]

Thanks @Onoff that's a supplier I had not seen before

 

"Full Hudson Reed 20 year guarantee"  Could I really trust that enough to make me not actually bother buying a spare thermal mixer cartridge?

[MikeSharp01]

38 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Could I really trust that enough to make me not actually bother buying a spare thermal mixer cartridge?

We have three of the Hudson Reed units and hard water, Thames Water (well today anyway) yet the themo mixer is still fine, only 13 years in. I did buy a couple of spare cartridges but they still sit in the plumbing box!

 

[lizzie]

I have a wall mounted overhead  rain shower and separate one on riser.  I have similar pressure to you (no pumps) and a 3 way thermostatic valve but with 2 knobs and it is placed more than a metre away from the shower so I dont have to get wet putting it on. Maintained from the front. We are part way through second fix. Not got a photo but can get one tomorrow if you are interested. All from Porcelanosa

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

I've used that British Bathtroom Company in my link a couple of times now. Good service & comns and the prices the cheapest I could find at the time.

[Jude1234]

1 hour ago, lizzie said:

I have a wall mounted overhead  rain shower and separate one on riser.  I have similar pressure to you (no pumps) and a 3 way thermostatic valve but with 2 knobs and it is placed more than a metre away from the shower so I dont have to get wet putting it on. Maintained from the front. We are part way through second fix. Not got a photo but can get one tomorrow if you are interested. All from Porcelanosa

 

 

 

 

Sounds just what I want, please can you post a photo?

[lizzie]

@Jude1234 will get a photo tomorrow

[CC45]

4 hours ago, Onoff said:

Similar to what I'm doing with the remote mounted controls, these:

 

http://www.britishbathroomcompany.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=Rei3411

 

& this riser rail / handset:

 

http://www.britishbathroomcompany.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=A3041

 

Both are Hudson Reed and get the Welshman's OK. 

 

I'm stuck on the rainfall head but likely this ('coz it's cheap), again Hudson Reed:

 

https://www.pebblegrey.co.uk/product/chrome-slim-round-fixed-head-300mm-diameter?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIruab_5_Y2QIVqL3tCh31xwMPEAQYCCABEgL0HfD_BwE

 

 

Just fitting these into our showers.  Twin with diverters.  Seem ok.  Good value.

[Onoff]

43 minutes ago, CC45 said:

Just fitting these into our showers.  Twin with diverters.  Seem ok.  Good value.

Tbh a big reason for this Hudson Reed mixer was that it sort of matches the Bristan bath & basin taps.

[le-cerveau]

When you say flow, do you mean selection or variable flow rate?  I ask as it makes a difference.

 

Not cheap but the Hansgrohe range does what you want, put an ibox where you want the controls, with one output run to the overhead and the other to the output for the handshower.  All this is within the wall and the controls go on top, it is fully serviceable.

 

Then select you valve:

• For on off only control use a Shower Select (one and/or the other)
• For variable control use an Ecostat (only one at a time)

 

[le-cerveau]

 

Shower Select S (2 outlet)

 

Ecostat S (2 outlet)

 

iBox install for those valves, you can put the valve anywhere and run the purple outputs to where you want them (within reason)

[Nickfromwales]

Dave. Make sure you don't get a 2-knob valve which is "sequential". 

One in your OP says you turn the temperature control to start the water flowing and you continue to rotate it to get the temp higher. Crap. You get full flow rate from the get-go with no throttle control so the handset needs an inline restrictor to stop it being like a pressure washer. 

You can get a 2-knob valve which has temp on one knob and flow to either outlet on the other ( 12 o'clock to 9 or 12 o'clock to 3 ) but graduated flow say 25% to 100% so you don't necessarily need 3 knobs to get the same result. 

[Barney12]

1 hour ago, le-cerveau said:

 

Shower Select S (2 outlet)

 

Ecostat S (2 outlet)

 

iBox install for those valves, you can put the valve anywhere and run the purple outputs to where you want them (within reason)

 

The ecostat S is what I went for. Ibox install is excellent. 

My one criticism is that the chrome back plate is plastic!!! For a high end brand which is far from cheap that’s pretty crap imho.

The joys of buying online, but they came from Megabad in Germany so I wasn’t sending them back. 

[Nickfromwales]

My £80 3-way valve has a chrome over solid brass faceplate  

The plastic Grohe faceplate is a good 1/4" thick, and prob made of plastic to facilitate the click in sliding push-button receivers. 

The shower select 2 is a stop / start shower so again may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the valve is restricted by design, so no jetwash problems like you get with the Bristan / other sequential valves.

 

[ProDave]

On 07 March 2018 at 08:21, Nickfromwales said:

My £80 3-way valve has a chrome over solid brass faceplate  

 

Which one is that? the same Hudson Reid one that @Onoff suggested?

 

At the moment the Hudson Reid ones are now my favourites.

[Nickfromwales]

33 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Which one is that? the same Hudson Reid one that @Onoff suggested?

 

At the moment the Hudson Reid ones are now my favourites.

WRAS approved cheapy one I went for. 

The 3 way one here is identical to mine but different seller as I cant find the original in my purchase history, bought about 3 years ago. 

TBH these are so cheap you could buy a couple for spares as most good quality manufacturers will be charging not far off that for replacements bought outside of the warranty period anyhoo. Plus these come with a 10-year warranty. Only question is will the seller be around in 10+ years time ?

For the difference in price, going for the HR is a no-brainer as you're pretty much guaranteed parts availability. Id still consider buying a couple of overhaul kits and a couple of thermostatic cartridges at the outset, so at least 10-15 years of trouble free motoring that way. Most bathrooms get refurbed every 15-20 years anyhoo. 

 

[ProDave]

I have been put off buying anything "long term" from ebay. I had a submirsible pump fail after 5 months. I then found the ebay seller I had bought it from was nowhere to be seen, nothing listed on ebay and did not answer emails. I did get my money back from Paypal, but that only covers 180 days.  So basically don't bank on anything you buy from ebay having anything more than a 6 month guarantee.

 

I think I will go for the HR ones, much more likely to be around in years to come.

 

I don't expect to be refurbishing the bathrooms any time soon. The wall will be "wet wall" not tiles so you can't just bust a couple of tiles out, replace the valve and re tile. It has to be servicable from the front, or a MAJOR re fit of the bathroom to replace.

[Nickfromwales]

Almost all are front serviceable. The only thing to watch out for is some have the NRVs in the inlets facing sideways, but mostly on the cheaper valves. 

If there is an option to remotely mount standard 15mm inline NRVs ( double check valves ) and do away with the manufacturers ones then thats a back-up option, but yours is soft water too iirc so less of a concern. 

 

[Onoff]

Hudson Reed:

 

https://www.hudsonreed.co.uk/about-us

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Almost all are front serviceable. The only thing to watch out for is some have the NRVs in the inlets facing sideways, but mostly on the cheaper valves. 

If there is an option to remotely mount standard 15mm inline NRVs ( double check valves ) and do away with the manufacturers ones then thats a back-up option, but yours is soft water too iirc so less of a concern. 

 

 

So with my hard water I should think about remote NRV (s) if I can? 

 

Lucky I hadn't already fitted and tiled over these!

[lizzie]

15 hours ago, Jude1234 said:

17 hours ago, lizzie said:

 

 

 

Sounds just what I want, please can you post a photo?

@Jude1234 this is mine I have tech spec if you want it......I had this  in my last house too so I know it works for me.

 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

So with my hard water I should think about remote NRV (s) if I can? 

 

Lucky I hadn't already fitted and tiled over these!

Only if they can't be serviced / replaced from the front. 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

So with my hard water I should think about remote NRV (s) if I can? 

Ah-ha!

 

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Only if they can't be serviced / replaced from the front. 

Nope! You should be fitting a water softener 

[Jude1234]

5 hours ago, lizzie said:

@Jude1234 this is mine I have tech spec if you want it......I had this  in my last house too so I know it works for me.

 

Looks really good @lizzie what makes are they and where are they from?  Love your tiles as well, where are they from?