MCS umbrella scheme. Anyone done it?

[flanagaj]

I would like to do all aspects of our heating/cooling and DHW installation myself.  I've read that I can do this and claim the grant if I use the MCS umbrella scheme.  Keen to understand if anyone has gone down this path?

[Stu789]

I'm interested in this too...

FWIW I spoke to a couple of the MCS umbrella companies last month and they only deal with a trading plumber not a self-builder so they basically said "get the plumber you want to work with to call us" 

 

 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

We did it via Cool Energy. It worked well for us overall. The only issue is controlling their heat pump via modbus. The service was great. 

[flanagaj]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

We did it via Cool Energy. It worked well for us overall. The only issue is controlling their heat pump via modbus. The service was great. 

Are you a plumber @MikeSharp01.  Just trying to understand your background.  I'm hoping that so long as you can show you have done detailed heat loss calculations and have a detailed schematic showing the proposed installation, it will show you have a good understanding of what needs to be done and you can hopefully do the work under the scheme.

[JohnMo]

Just buy it yourself.

 

Direct UVC cylinder, heat during cheap rate periods. Direct cylinder compared to heat pump cylinder generally £1k+ or £2k cheaper than Mixergy and Heat Geek ones. Plus it allows you heat house and DHW in cheap periods. Price difference buys a lot of cheap energy. But from switching for heat pump heated to direct I haven't noticed any difference in overall cost of electricity.

 

You will most likely have UFH anyway. Then you just need the ASHP. I paid £2k for mine.

 

You also have the freedom to do your install your way.

[LaChab]

I recently finished installing an ASHP under the umbrella scheme. I did all the work, and I'm definitely not a plumber.

I made a "profit" of about £1000, so I think it's a really good offer.

[crispy_wafer]

34 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Just buy it yourself.

 

Direct UVC cylinder, heat during cheap rate periods. Direct cylinder compared to heat pump cylinder generally £1k+ or £2k cheaper than Mixergy and Heat Geek ones. Plus it allows you heat house and DHW in cheap periods. Price difference buys a lot of cheap energy. But from switching for heat pump heated to direct I haven't noticed any difference in overall cost of electricity.

 

You will most likely have UFH anyway. Then you just need the ASHP. I paid £2k for mine.

 

You also have the freedom to do your install your way.

Suggesting the ashp for heating only and have the immersion on a timer or some form of solar diverter to utilise excess?

[Stu789]

15 minutes ago, LaChab said:

I recently finished installing an ASHP under the umbrella scheme. I did all the work, and I'm definitely not a plumber.

I made a "profit" of about £1000, so I think it's a really good offer.

Could you please share which umbrella scheme you used, thx

[LaChab]

@Stu789 I used this company. https://www.air2heat.co.uk/mcs-umbrella-scheme. As you can see, they're based in Oswestry but they were happy to travel down to North Somerset for me. 

[JohnMo]

17 minutes ago, crispy_wafer said:

Suggesting the ashp for heating only and have the immersion on a timer or some form of solar diverter to utilise excess?

Just a simple programmable timer for DHW - stand alone system. Generally you are better exporting solar, but I do get some periods on Agile where export is almost nothing and if you have excess solar, ideal time to dump in to water

 

32 minutes ago, LaChab said:

I recently finished installing an ASHP under the umbrella scheme. I did all the work, and I'm definitely not a plumber.

I made a "profit" of about £1000, so I think it's a really good offer.

Wouldn't advertise you made a profit, as you an the umbrella company are defrauding the tax man.

[G and J]

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Wouldn't advertise you made a profit, as you an the umbrella company are defrauding the tax man.

I’m sure he meant compared to the best quote he got otherwise.  Honest. 

[Oz07]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Just buy it yourself.

 

Direct UVC cylinder, heat during cheap rate periods. Direct cylinder compared to heat pump cylinder generally £1k+ or £2k cheaper than Mixergy and Heat Geek ones. Plus it allows you heat house and DHW in cheap periods. Price difference buys a lot of cheap energy. But from switching for heat pump heated to direct I haven't noticed any difference in overall cost of electricity.

 

You will most likely have UFH anyway. Then you just need the ASHP. I paid £2k for mine.

 

You also have the freedom to do your install your way.

I was looking into this the other week with ai. Excuse my luddite levels of understanding. I know you know your onions. The ai was implying immersion heating is a lot more expensive than heat pump because no COP. It was kind of implying doing the install so can heat water with both ashp and immersion is the best way. Are you saying its a lot more expensive? Can the ashp recharge quicker than immersion?

 

Do you guys have some low dhw use which means you dont really notice the cost whereas a big family with multiple showers or baths would notice it?

[JohnMo]

29 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

The ai was implying immersion heating is a lot more expensive than heat pump because no COP

The implication is most likely correct in theory, but reality for our system is our electric consumption/cost hasn't changed enough to really notice, especially as one of the heats is done in the day when I have solar to pick up the cost.  Interesting I was talking with a friend, he has a system oil boiler and switched over to immersion only heating DHW a few years ago, mainly because he didn't see much difference in running cost. Wife is also happier as she didn't like the not really hot water water generated by the heat pump.  He has a young family (oil boiler) - there are two of us.

 

Can the ashp recharge quicker than immersion? Depends on the output, but our 210L is generally charged in an hour or less with immersion (heat twice per day), it took that long also with the a 6kW heat pump - not tried now we have a 4kW (installed in January).  A heat pump will slowly ramp up temperature from as low a flow temperature as it can, here is a typical night time reheat (our 6kW ASHP) - was 8 degs outside. 

 

 

It took an hour and would have heated cylinder to 47 degs.  Used 2kWh. 

 

Plot showing cylinder temperature - Last night I reheated cylinder, it starting at 4.30am and was finished at just before 5am and then around 1 hr later ran for a further 6 mins, an hour later another couple of mins, so all up just over 3kWk - but cylinder was at 58 degs, not 47 degs.

 

Edited 43 minutes ago by JohnMo