Failed at first hurdle

[lmrn1]

I wanted to build a timber double garage so thought before planning application would contact Severn Trent as I have a 300mm sewer running under my garden and the garage would be over the top of said pipe.  Garage base would be 150mm hardcore and 150mm concrete.

 

Seven Trent have come back and said a firm NO as they don't allow people to build over.  My problem is the neighbour opposite has a crick built double garage over the pipe to which he got permission and also a 2 storey extension on the rear well within 5 m of the pipe.  I feel they are being totally unfair. 

 

Does anyone have any advice please, would be much appreciated. 

[saveasteading]

It depends how much you risk a row with the neighbour.

Have they got permissions?

If so, you could ask SW why theirs is allowed and yours not.

If not.... there may be flak.

[lmrn1]

Neighbour had to dig a big hole to see how far down pipe was so got permission.  Said he’s got all paperwork so may ask him if I can have a look

[Nickfromwales]

9 hours ago, lmrn1 said:

Neighbour had to dig a big hole to see how far down pipe was so got permission.  Said he’s got all paperwork so may ask him if I can have a look

The worst he can say is “no”, plus it would be a convenient opportunity to mention that you’re looking to build over it “like you have”.

 

Then ask “did it all go well when you reached out to ST?”. Etc.

 

Then let them do the talking.  

[kandgmitchell]

ST don't allow building over for new detached structures  if the sewer is 300mm dia or more. They may have been more flexible for an extension eating into the working area either side of the pipe. Thames Water for instance will not allow new works over their larger sewers but will allow extensions to existing dwellings. The neighbour may have applied for permission for the extension and have been granted it subject to conditions. The garage could have of course been done on the fly or before any stricter policy has been brought in.

 

You will have some idea as to the depth of the sewer from the neighbour's experience. You could try an application stressing the nature of the building, the depth of the sewer and agreeing to remove the structure if major sewer works are required (and that's pretty unlikely unless it's your works that have caused it).

[Spinny]

You might want to have a careful look at all the info on the build over process and requirements on the ST website. I am in a different area, but I would imagine you may have a similar process where there are criteria about how far from sewers you need to be building - if you don't meet them you need ST approval. Then potentially possibly a self certification questionnaire you can complete to record that you meet criteria for not needing permission OR a form to complete to request approval where you have to give answers to relevent questions. Someone will then likely look at your request and the answers you gave and make a decision. You might therefore want to carefully consider EXACTLY what words you use to answer the questions. A garage might be described as 'build a new garage', 'extend my garage', or 'extend my property'. The last description may tick the box, the first may get a computer says no type answer.

 

My neighbour deliberately gamed the system for his side extension and built over the lateral drain into my property without getting approval. Simply on the basis that it wasn't 'the extension' he was building over the drain, but a 4.5 ft high planter wall and raised platform.

 

Potentially your neighbour had his extension and garage done under one set of combined plans, which was then all a home extension and therefore met criteria ?

 

Don't think that anyone spent hours pouring over your requirement, it is likely processed by someone without much knowledge or brain, or any discretion. They just read the request form and apply simple rules based on the words you have used and give an answer.

 

You might also want to consider getting planning approval first - more credible than a speculative enquiry which uses all the wrong trigger words.

[Dave Jones]

be careful, building over sewers is picked up during conveyancing and will scupper a sale.

[lmrn1]

Seven Trent are a nightmare, it was a straight refusal, quote "we don't allow anything over the pipe, no matter what it is" so even if I forget the idea of a garage and have a shed, they still say that isn't allowed as its a build over, so basically we can't have any structure in the garden.  Where is the justice in that?  When I asked about having protection around the pipe, same answer 'NO'.  Need to have a 7m space around the pipe, thats the whole garden.  Frustrated is an understatement 

 

And to top it all, had drain cctv yesterday who stated the pipe is 450mm and they couldn't put the camera up as the water flow is too great

Edited yesterday at 13:20 by lmrn1
more info

[Mr Punter]

Sorry to hear this but at least you got a definitive answer.  I would not go anywhere near a 450mm foul sewer with a high velocity flow.

[saveasteading]

That's a load of .... dirty water. 

450 is a very big pipe indeed.

Bad luck but that's a fair decision.

[torre]

Maybe a shepherd's hut or mobile home? Something moveable, probably limited to being on a compacted stone bed they can be dug easily, not a poured slab.

 

I'm not endorsing anyone but some of these are pretty fancy! https://happynesthomes.co.uk/two-bed-mobile-home/

[ProDave]

The location of such a pipe under your garden is something you should consider at time of purchasing the house.  If such a pipe exists, and you really want to build an extension or outbuilding, it would be simpler just to look for a different house that does not have such a "feature"

[Spinny]

Fairly clearly if you bought the property without the presence of this large sewer being clearly communicated at the time of purchase - and indeed covered by the solicitor/conveyencer through the questionnaire process with the previous owner - then you may have a good legal claim against the previous owner, your solictor, their solicitor etc etc. Drain search should also be a standard thing - sewer maps readily available from the utility - often free.

 

Also a need to check your house insurance, as if the sewer collapsed damaging your property would you actually be covered ?

 

Also are you upstream of your neighbour that has presumably illegally built over this sewer ? Should his building collpase the sewer your property could be inundated with er...

 

Did you and your neighbour buy your properties new from a builder/developer ? Could be a legal case against them.

 

The street of properties I am on has a shared sewer running under everyone's front garden - a couple of the gardens have access manholes. Nobody could sensibly build in the front garden forward of the existing building line, and no-one has. The sewer is pretty deep. Has absolutely zero effect on the house prices and everyone drives their cars over it on front drives all the time.

 

Ask a lawyer but I might imagine any attempt by ST to claim a simple garden shed or similar had damaged a sewer which should be well deep and well constructed wouldn't stand a cat in hell's chance in court. If ST are claiming any significant inhibition to the use of the land then I would have thought that should perhaps have been entered against the deeds of the house as a covenant/restriction ?