Council tax demand

[nod]

I posted on this subject a few weeks back

The lady that we purchased the land from had mistakenly filled in a council tax form that was meant for us

we eventually managed to speak to someone at the council who advised Fill the form in stating you are not ready to occupy yet

Today we received a demand for 

nine months at £2000 

We are still first fixing electrics and plumbing 

But the outside looks finished

im going to email and try to speak to them on Monday

We have thirty days to appeal 

 

any help would be most appreciated 

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

There are some posts on this, as we had the council send around a lady one evening to climb over our security fencing and snoop around, in order to send us a council tax demand for a house that was far from finished.

 

The law is pretty clear, and relates to whether or not the house can be considered a rateable hereditament under the Rating Act (1969, I think).  There are two bits of case law that clarify this, but the key one is that in order for Council Tax to be levied the house has to meet certain requirements in terms of habitability.  The easiest one to not connect in order to make the house definitely ineligible for Council Tax is the water supply.  If the house does not have a supply of potable water then it is not a rateable hereditament and therefore cannot be valued for Council Tax purposes and placed on the register.

 

If your house has already been valued, banded and placed on the register, then you need to appeal to have it removed, on the ground that it is not a rateable hereditament.  A search of the forum will find the relevant case law, as I know that it's been posted here somewhere.

 

The other thing worth doing is removing the assumed right of access under common law that the Council has to walk on to your plot.  I did this by both writing to the Council telling them that I had revoked their right of access, and that if they wished to visit to inspect (they have the right to ask for this) then they should contact me to make an appointment.  I also put signs up outside, specifically revoking the assumed right of access for all Council staff or their contractors.

 

 

Edited to add:

 

Have a read of these threads, as they have more on Council Tax liability and the relevant case law that applies:

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Land mines is an alternative, but slightly more controversial. 

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Land mines is an alternative, but slightly more controversial. 

 

 

I was very, very tempted to set up booby traps after catching the Council snooper on camera.  I don't often get really angry, but the Council managed to get me seething for weeks by doing this.  The pompous woman I spoke to on the phone, that tried to justify a member of her staff breaking into our property, with no PPE on, and ignoring all the warning and keep out signs, by telling me that lots of builders tried to avoid paying Council Tax so they had a duty to check up on every new build regularly.  The implication was that she thought I was deliberately avoiding paying the tax, even though we were so far off completion that I hadn't even started to think about it yet.  Anyway, they lost out on around 18 months of Council Tax just because they put my back up so much that I very deliberately (and perfectly legally) kept the house in a state where it could not be declared a rateable hereditament, just out of spite.

[nod]

Thank you for your replies

ive just walked in after another long day at the plot

Unfortunately like many on here we are doing virtually all the work ourselfs whilst we are both working full time through the week

This demand was the last thing we needed 

 

The letter stated that while they had taken note of what we had told them The inspected had deemed the property habitable 

Therefore Liable for counsel tax 

Please take a look at the pictures that I’ve taken an hour ago

 

[Declan52]

Definitely habitable for mice but for anyone else that would be no. Can you contact them and ask what exactly made him think it was habitable.

[PeterW]

I’d start with asking who inspected it, on what day and at what time and who authorised them to enter the site - in a very strongly worded letter ..! 

 

And then send the photos ..! 

[Jeremy Harris]

I'd advise contacting them ASAP, with a list of points as to why it does not meet the rateable hereditament tests in the case law quoted in the links in this post:

 

If you're methodical you should have no problem in making the case that it does not meet the legal requirements, but I suspect you will be dealing with people who are inflexible and not particularly well-versed in the law.  Certainly the first person I spoke to at the council was pretty aggressive and bullying, and passed me on to her manager.  The manager didn't understand the law at all, and I managed to get her to refer my points to their legal department, and quoted the relevant items of case law.  The moment their legal eagle was made aware that there was no potable water on site, the whole thing just went away, with a request that I call them when the house met the legal requirements to be habitable.

 

They will try it on, as these people have learned that being bullying and aggressive, with the authority of the council, makes most people back away.  The hardest part for me was staying calm and civil when dealing with them, as I was steaming mad.  I can clearly remember being on the phone to them at the top of our lane (there's no signal at the house), finishing the calm conversation with one of the morons and then shouting and swearing with pent up rage.  The lady walking her dog that passed me at that moment just smiled at me and said "was that telephone call a little tiresome?".  Calmed me down better than a bottle or two of wine.........

[nod]

Thank you again

 

i was going to get the water connected next month but I’m glad I didn’t 

If I was to get the water on

Would that leave me vonuable In view of what has happened 

It's pretty obvious that there is no water on as we have a 10 mtr coil of alkathene just outside the site gate

we are not there midweek and the site is Locked and fenced off

Very unlikely that anyone has been upto the windows Let alone in there 

 

Thank you again It’s nice to have the forum to have a good moan

and receive a  sympathetic  response 

My wife Deborah is very upset

I pretending I’m not to bothered

and a quick email will get things sorted out

I think that I need to get someone down to inspect the the house 

Rather than just drive by

[Jeremy Harris]

Point out there is no water supply connected, ask them to check with the water company if they don't believe you, and quote the relevant bit of case law that says that a building without a water supply cannot be lawfully classed as a rateable hereditament.

 

I'd delay getting the water connected if you can, until you've resolved this.  If you agree to notify them when you feel that you've met the requirements for habitability, then the chances are you may get the same reaction I did.  They backed right off when I did this, we had no more snoopers coming around, and they didn't even use the statutory powers they have to issue us with a notice of intended completion date.  I think they thought that I was likely to give them pain and grief (which was spot on) if they tried to get us to pay up before we were ready, so just backed off.  A few weeks after completion I wrote a letter to the VOA, requesting that our new build be valued and put on the register.  If you want to delay things further, you can, as you can appeal the banding, and that adds a few weeks delay.  The Council cannot charge you Council Tax until the VOA have put the house on the register.

 

My guess is that your house has been put on the Council Tax register now and that the VOA have done the external inspection (done from the roadside, or even just the plans).  You need to get it off the register ASAP, by highlighting that it is is on there by error with the VOA (not the council).  No building that is not a rateable hereditament should be on the register, as by definition the register only holds details of buildings that are - it goes back to the old Rating Act again.

[nod]

Thank you I’ll keep you posted

[PeterW]

46 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

The lady walking her dog that passed me at that moment just smiled at me and said "was that telephone call a little tiresome?".  Calmed me down better than a bottle or two of wine.........

 

I just snorted a mouthful of red wine down my top .!!!! 

[Hecateh]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

I can clearly remember being on the phone to them at the top of our lane (there's no signal at the house), finishing the calm conversation with one of the morons and then shouting and swearing with pent up rage.  The lady walking her dog that passed me at that moment just smiled at me and said "was that telephone call a little tiresome?".

 

39 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

I just snorted a mouthful of red wine down my top .!!!! 

Plus 1 still giggling --- I have so been there

 

[Gone West]

10 hours ago, JSHarris said:

The Council cannot charge you Council Tax until the VOA have put the house on the register.

Do you happen to know the situation with a replacement dwelling. I am still living in the bungalow on the site and the new house, built in the garden, is now habitable. Both buildings have the same name  and I have asked the VOA to change the band to what I think the new house should be. The VOA have written to me telling me that they are considering the request to change the band. In the meantime the Council have sent me a council tax bill, for the new house which they have called 'New Property', with a provisional Rating Band which is higher than the one I suggested to the VOA. This means I am to pay Council Tax on both buildings while they are both habitable even though I have to demolish the bungalow when I move into the house.

[Jeremy Harris]

44 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Do you happen to know the situation with a replacement dwelling. I am still living in the bungalow on the site and the new house, built in the garden, is now habitable. Both buildings have the same name  and I have asked the VOA to change the band to what I think the new house should be. The VOA have written to me telling me that they are considering the request to change the band. In the meantime the Council have sent me a council tax bill, for the new house which they have called 'New Property', with a provisional Rating Band which is higher than the one I suggested to the VOA. This means I am to pay Council Tax on both buildings while they are both habitable even though I have to demolish the bungalow when I move into the house.

 

I'm not sure, Peter, but I seem to remember that there is a part of the VOA form that asks whether the application is a change to an existing register entry. 

 

We received a letter from the VOA notifying us of the banding, and advising that they had copied this to the local authority, but that we could appeal the banding if we wished.  The letter gave details of how to appeal, together with the time limit.  In our case I was happy that they had taken the points I'd made on board, about the thick walls reducing the internal volume and there being no central heating on the first floor, and had put us in the lowest band I could reasonably have hoped for.  I didn't deal with the council until several weeks later, when they wrote to us asking how we would like to pay the Council tax for the part of the year since the valuation date to the start of the next financial year.

 

As far as I am aware, council tax can only be levied on a house that has been valued by the VOA and put on to the register, as a new entry.  I believe you can ask to see the register.  It seems possible that the council may have asked the VOA to value the new house without telling you, just to give them a way to collect council tax from it.  I'm pretty sure they are supposed to give you notice of this, by issuing a notice of intended completion to you, with the date on it from which council tax will be charged.

 

It looks like you'll have to try and find out what has been going on, then challenge the VOA and the council.  The VOA were quite helpful I found, the council far less so.

[ProDave]

Just one question.

 

In order for them to have sent you a council tax bill, they must have valued it and assigned a council tax band to the property.  What banding have they given it and is that banding reasonable?

 

While I fully agree you should not be paying council tax now, if by chance it has been put in an unusually low band, I would just accept it and pay on the basis the long term saving is worth the short term pain.  However if it's in the correct banding I would definitely fight it.

[nod]

It has been banded F

£2500 per year 

this has come from the VOA

 

There is absolutely no chance anyone has been in the property 

and little chance that anyone has been in the plot Unless they have climbed over the Heras fencing and back out

 

When we are moved in I’m hoping the water rates will be less as we are on a treatment plant So no sewage 

Not sure how this works though 

[ProDave]

Then definitely contest it. Make an appointment to meet the valuation officer on site and ask him to explain exactly how he believes it is habitable and taxable in it's current form.

 

You should not pay waste water charges if you have a treatment plant.

[Jeremy Harris]

Often the VOA won't actually visit the property at all; they didn't visit ours but valued it using the plans that were on the local planning website.  As I'd filled the form in, I pointed out that we had very thick walls, so the internal space was less than for a conventional house (the VOA use the external dimensions to estimate the internal area).  I also suggested the Council Tax band I thought the house should be in, and pointed out that there was no central heating upstairs (the valuation rules date back to when full central heating was seen as adding value to a house).

 

What seems to have happened is that by completing the VOA form far too soon, your new build has been valued and put on the register as a completed new house.  The council will then backdate council tax to the VOA valuation date, or possibly the date that was on the VOA form, and that's why you've had a bill.

 

I suggest you try and talk to the VOA first, explain that the house is far from completed, isn't habitable, has no potable water supply etc and see if they can take it off the register, or suspend it.  Then talk to the council, explain the cock-up with the VOA and the state of the house and they should withdraw the council tax demand, with luck.

[nod]

The plot thickens 

 

My wife has spoken to our neighbor who we bought the plot from

She handed us the letter that had been delivered to them

She told my wife that they had applied for a rate reduction

She is now banded as C Five bed over three floors Same floor area 

Albeit joined to the farmhouse 

 

A bit of background to this is When we purchased the plot from a single lady with two Children

She did have a boyfriend on the scene Who moved in June and has since complained about boundrys 

Bricklayers  noise You name it 

He never stops

 

we built her a garage installed her a treatment plant re routed her drains that were in a shocking state Febced both plots off

Which caused problems with boundrys 

I set the boundrys and house with an EDM Still not happy 

Wanted then rechecking At our exspence 

Which we did 

I was 20 mil out at the front line and spot on between the two properties 

Still not happy Out with his long tape and string line 

He tells us hes built six houses from scratch

We don’t believe him

 

We are going to have a good think as to weather we complete the house and sell it 

Preverablely to someone with a noisy Dog

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Someone must have asked the VOA to value your house and put it on the register, as they don't do this automatically.  Normally it would either be you filling in the VOA form and asking for a valuation and to be put on the register, or the council sending you a notice of intended completion and then them notifying the VOA.

 

In your case, I've a suspicion that your neighbour might have asked the VOA to value your house, perhaps as a part of her process for getting her own house banding reduced.  I can't see how she could do this without pretending to still own your plot, so there seems to have been something dodgy going on.

 

My experience of dealing with the VOA was pretty positive.  They don't seem to have an axe to grind about valuations, and just try to value it as accurately as they can from the data that's available to them.  Some of that will be physical things, like the external dimensions, number of bedrooms etc, some will be a bit ephemeral, like the sale prices of similar properties in the immediate area, adjusted back to the 1st April 1991 value datum they use.

[nod]

Thank you again

 

we had a electric Suplies put on in June and ended up with an aronious transfer to a company in Island 

They were adimant that my wife had authorised it Spelt her own name wrong in the process 

Its taken us till now to get that sorted out Coincidences are starting to stack up

[Jeremy Harris]

It does sound as if your neighbour may be involved in this.  She will still be recorded on some address databases as the resident, I'm sure, so it would be relatively easy for her to do stuff like this.

 

I suspect you may well find that she's committed one or more criminal offences if this does turn out to be the case.  People like energy companies usually keep records of phone calls, for example and the VOA will have a copy of the form requesting a change to the register, for sure. 

 

Definitely a case of gathering as much evidence as to what's been going on as possible to see if it does look like your neighbour has been going out of her way to cause you inconvenience by tactics that may well be unlawful.