Onoff Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Mate has just been touted by a company called Solaredge. He already has 8 PV panels and a Sunny Boy inverter. This bloke wants to sell him 8 optimizers and a new Solaredge inverter for £4K. This on the basis his old inverter is only 85% efficient and the new Solaredge one 95% efficient. They'll buy back his Sunny Boy for £500 so £3.5K all in. Rekons it'll make his system 25% more efficient overall. My mate then rang the crowd who did his panels then latterly storage batteries and they've said they can do the same thing for £2.5K. All sounds b@llocks to me? Made the mistake of telling the second lot he's needing a new boiler so they're now after selling him an ASHP. I suggested Sunamp? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Have they done a full and proper annual generation prediction comparing the two systems? If not, where has the 25% come from? My guess is that it's just sale BS, and that if pushed they won't put anything in writing. The main reason to consider microinverters or power optimisers (Solar Edge is the latter I think) is if you have a lot of shading. If he doesn't, then I can't imagine that it makes any sense to change. He'd have to look at the maths, but the payback period will be woeful, especially on a relatively small system like his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 30 minutes ago, jack said: Have they done a full and proper annual generation prediction comparing the two systems? If not, where has the 25% come from? My guess is that it's just sale BS, and that if pushed they won't put anything in writing. The main reason to consider microinverters or power optimisers (Solar Edge is the latter I think) is if you have a lot of shading. If he doesn't, then I can't imagine that it makes any sense to change. He'd have to look at the maths, but the payback period will be woeful, especially on a relatively small system like his. Not in shade. At the top of a hill in fact. He has a history of getting conned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Tell him I'll give him £600 for the SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 I'm going to try and get him to come down to Build It Live at Detling and talk to @AndyT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 In April 2016 he had EnergyTarget fit 3 extra panels taking him to 8 and a storage battery. £5K. I think it's them just quoted the £2.5K above and pushing the ASHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Solaredge is good, but he is being snake-oiled. Perhaps their business model is creaking? As a marginal benefit on a new install it can be a significant benefit at maybe £25 per panel if eg shaded. Plus the inverter may cost a bit extra over the equivalent. That could be a good option. As an aftermarket wonder product. No. Would this impact on his existing payments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Onoff said: Not in shade. At the top of a hill in fact. He has a history of getting conned! Ah yes, I believe you've talked about this guy before. Never met a door to door salesman he didn't like! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Why not sell him something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Tell him that putting silver foil on the DC side improves efficiency and that clingfilm on the lower half of the modules can do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Tonight he has someone coming round to talk about having an ASHP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: Tonight he has someone coming round to talk about having an ASHP... Record it for us please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 This from another forum and a bit of a guru for all things solar imho: I'll keep it simple - GARBAGE. Unless he has a very old inverter then the Euro-efficiency rating is 95% for an older Sunny Boy. (unless he has a very old model which isn't 'transformerless' ). Optimisers can only add 25% if there are serious shading issues. Even then Sunny Boys have a feature called 'Global Optitracking' which is a shade compensation algorithm. I did have a report on optimisers versus a standard inverter from an independent tester called Photon International (German trade magazine) They can impove output when shading is an issue, but the report used a Grade B inveter, SMAs are 'Triple A' rated, and even then the gain wasn't as high as 25%.. Now optimisers are around £30each, a solaraedge inverter around £800, so that's about £1040. Scaffold, say £600, so that's £1640 - you can pay me £1k to fit it if you like - think that will cover my diesel A new SB is around £750 if you want the latest spec which runs at 96-98% efficiency at all but the lowest light levels. There's also nothing to stop you doing this work yourself anyway. Somethig like a Chinese Solis inverter is about £600 fitted - doesn't have shade compensation, and won't last as long, but efficiency is on par with SMA (more or less). I'm guesiing tht he has about 2kW of panels,, which should output around 2000kWh per year, so assuing the high original tariff of around 50p, then even if he did get 25% more that's worth about £250 per year, so even at £2.5k, that's 10 year payback. I've attached a Photon Report - it wasn't the one I was looking for and it's annoying as it doesn't say what the base inverter was. NB where there is no shading or even if the panels are dirty there can be small performance increases as the system doesn't have to compensate for differences in the panels themselves. I do fit Solaredge where shading is notable, btu other than that the additional cost does not merit the outputs gained. solaredge-case-study-photon-power-optimizers-1473941071.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 So the man came round....from Think Green Energy. Didn't have any brochures or even leave a card. Seemingly they felt an ASHP was the wrong thing as quite expensive so he tried to sell them a "pv optimiser that limits the voltage going to the inverter". British made in Sheffield. He showed them a photo of a burnt out time clock that was running on 240V instead of 230V! This makes them overheat and give up. AND it would prolong the life of the inverter. £2500 in the sale that ends today funnily enough! If he doesn't take his commission he could do it for £2100! The bloke was there 3 hours! Amazingly my mate didn't go for it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) If they are an MCS company, I think they can be reported for that sort of thing. Not that it would do any good. Have you spoken to your mate about Bitcoins Edited January 30, 2018 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) On 30/01/2018 at 22:13, SteamyTea said: If they are an MCS company, I think they can be reported for that sort of thing. Not that it would do any good. Have you spoken to your mate about Bitcoins Trying to source some shiny glass beads at the mo! https://www.thinkgreenenergy.co.uk/ "It all begins with a quick consultation" then 3 hours later the **** is STILL there trying to get you to sign up! Edited February 1, 2018 by Nickfromwales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 On 1/29/2018 at 22:55, Onoff said: I'm going to try and get him to come down to Build It Live at Detling and talk to @AndyT. I would be pleased to chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, AndyT said: I would be pleased to chat But not for 3 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, AndyT said: But not for 3 hours You sure about that ? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: You sure about that ? ?? Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 People on the 45p/kwh tariff, this may make sense for, for everyone else, just make a consideration when your inverter goes pop, and get the best one which is reasonable in price at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 22 hours ago, MikeGrahamT21 said: People on the 45p/kwh tariff, this may make sense for, for everyone else, just make a consideration when your inverter goes pop, and get the best one which is reasonable in price at the time. He is on the highest tarrif having been an early adopter of PV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Ask him to add up all the money he has spent in the last decade on his 'investments'. Then work out what he could have done with the cash instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 2 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Ask him to add up all the money he has spent in the last decade on his 'investments'. Then work out what he could have done with the cash instead. PV, PV batteries, funeral plan, 2G windows and doors...to replace existing 2G windows and doors. (His old front door now my new back door! ). Annual Internet support, hot tub...paid CASH??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Hot tub is couple of grand for a very good one, what did he pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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