It’s coming out the hole

[Pocster]

This spring gate closer was a tough (expletive deleted) to install . After under a year it’s pulling out the quoin . Assume quoin is quite soft . What fixing do I need so this mofo doesn’t pull out ?

[Mr Punter]

A plate like the one holding the hinge, so it has more than one fixing and they are spread out.

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

A plate like the one holding the hinge, so it has more than one fixing and they are spread out.

The fitting at the wall end is fixed to the spring base - so it is just 1 hole .

[Gone West]

Bolt the bottom fixing to a steel plate and screw the plate to the stonework with four screws.

[Nickfromwales]

Drill a deeper hole and set some threaded 4mm or 5mm threaded bar in with resin. Then a nut and washer to lock it there forever.

I'd use stainless, but do not over-tighten it.

[ToughButterCup]

34 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

....

I'd use stainless, but do not over-tighten it.

 

I'd use leftover walk-on glazing....

[jack]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Drill a deeper hole and set some threaded 4mm or 5mm threaded bar in with resin. Then a nut and washer to lock it there forever.

I'd use stainless, but do not over-tighten it.

Copper grease is your friend with stainless-on-stainless.

I learned this after I managed to completely seize one of the stainless nuts that holds my ASHP stand down, halfway onto the threaded bar. Apparently galling is a thing.  

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

do not over-tighten it.

Such an important bit of advice. Most bolts are overtightened.

[ToughButterCup]

14 hours ago, saveasteading said:

.... Most bolts are overtightened.

 

But its comforting to over-tighten them. 

 

In the context of bolts and threads (and without a torque wrench)  - how does a self builder (or indeed anyone)  know what's too loose and what's too tight ? 

[dpmiller]

5 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

But its comforting to over-tighten them. 

 

In the context of bolts and threads (and without a torque wrench)  - how does a self builder (or indeed anyone)  know what's too loose and what's too tight ? 

buy a torque wrench?

[ToughButterCup]

OK, so I've bought my wrench. 

 

How tight should I set it ? 

Where do I get guidance for all those hundreds of times we've all tightened ( over-tightened) bolts? 

[Post and beam]

Plenty of engineering text books with tables of figures for every type size and material of fixings. Google is your friend.

[ToughButterCup]

Ah, thanks.

 

If (like me) you don't know what to search for - or indeed if a topic is searchable -  you can't find it. So just in case anyone is researching the same topic - - 

 

the seach term I used is   bolt tightening torque calculator

 

And here's the result. There are also downloadable apps that do the same thing ( but better?)

 

Well I never. Who knew? 

[saveasteading]

28 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

buy a torque wrench?

NO.

I was involved with a sophisticated steel building system for many years.

They were very strict about not overtightening and not using a torque wrench. It puts an unnecessary stress into the threads and the bolt into tension.

It is known as "turn of the nut".

Turn on to get a snug fit without noticeable effort. Then use effort to achieve 1/4 rotation. One heave on a big spanner basically. I will try to find whether it's 1/3 or 1/4.

This applies only for steel and would not apply if the components were in good condition.

 

The supplier wouldn't discuss if there had been previous problems, but it was clearly a big deal.

Some erectors complained as they liked to use macho kit. Most accepted it.

I did it myself on many foundation nuts. I think being feeble meant I got it right, but it was tempting to try to go tighter.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:29 by saveasteading

[ToughButterCup]

17 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

...

Turn on to get a snug fit without noticeable effort. Then use effort to achieve 1/4 rotation. One heave on a big spanner basically.

...

 

Is that a 'General Rule' ?

Snug fit , plus a quarter turn ?

[saveasteading]

Have a Google. To my surprise there is a lot of info thereon.

I'd have to find my training documents to see the detail. 1/3 or 1/4, and it probably doesn't matter which.

 

I think the point is that the bolts shouldn't be stressed to capacity in everyday,  passive mode, and so a load from wind etc doesn't then overstress it.

That would apply also to pulling out a resin anchor or rawlpug etc.

 

This will not apply to engines etc. which is a different world. 

[SteamyTea]

Young's Modulus is all you need to know.

 

As you tighten a bolt, or screw, it stretches, so gets a little thinner.  The idea is to stretch it enough to hold itself in place, and allow for some more stretching when extra loads are imposed.  There is a limit, called the elastic limit.  Below the elastic limit, the bolt/screw will return to its original shape, pass the elastic limit, called the yield point, the material is failing and does not return to its original shape.

Once a bolt/screw has been overtightened (the yield point reached), any extra load deforms the material and failure is happening.  This may not be visually apparent at first, but it is failing.

 

Alternatively, tighten till it goes loose, then back half a turn.

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

That's it..... I knew that necking is the precursor to fracture.

 

My mum did warn me.