Outside pir light problem

[dave1967]

Just doing what i thought was a simple job for family member.

Replaced a screwfix dunham light with pir with a new maine pir light. Connected it up the same . (black to neutral and red to live and the earth) didn't work. Being now told that the new light needs neutral, live and earth and it  may have live and switched live as its off a switch. Could this be right?

[markc]

Post a pic of your new light connections, may just need live and switched live linking, but then that could be on all the time. Post a pic of your new light connections

 

[dave1967]

Its just a choc block connector l n and earth

[markc]

23 minutes ago, dave1967 said:

Its just a choc block connector l n and earth

In that case you don’t need anything else, I had a similar thing a few years ago and you had to “programme” the light by flicking switch on and off a certain number of times to set how you wanted the light to behave … on dusk till dawn, trigger only etc.

[Spinny]

Presumably the switch will need to be on all the time to power the PIR detector.

 

The other route these days is to separate the light and the detector wireless smart home fashion. I see there is even a Quinetic PIR detector (battery powered) with adjustable lux level too - Quinetic PIR Link

(Not to mention mm wave radar detectors - not sure how well they go outdoors though)

[dave1967]

Its not working. Ive been told older lights can work with live. To live and switched live to neutral but new lights wont work this way and need a neutral.  Is this rubbish?

Edited yesterday at 18:34 by dave1967

[Nickfromwales]

47 minutes ago, dave1967 said:

Its not working. Ive been told older lights can work with live. To live and switched live to neutral but new lights wont work this way and need a neutral.  Is this rubbish?

Sounds nonsense. If this is a PIR light then you’d just turn the light switch on and leave the unit powered 24/7. 
 

Then you have L & N + E constant power.

 

If you want to turn the switch off, for some reason, then seems an odd choice of light fitting! Switching it back on will provoke a start up time event, every time you do so, but then it’ll go off and into PIR mode.

 

Just turn the light switch on and leave it on. 
 

I assume you know you shouldn’t be connecting L and SW L together? Nothing but the factory wiring should be in SW L. 

[dave1967]

Nothing tripped. Im trying to find out if switched live to neutral on the light is a thing or not. 

[Nickfromwales]

39 minutes ago, dave1967 said:

Nothing tripped. Im trying to find out if switched live to neutral on the light is a thing or not. 

A switched live is only a switched live, if you keep flipping the switch.

 

If you flip the switch on, and leave it on, it's then a permanent supply  

 

Live is live, comes from the same place, ends up in the same place.

[ProDave]

Post a picture of your connections at the light fitting, that should clear this up.

[dave1967]

I can do but its just earth to earth . red to live and black to neutral. May be a dud light.

[FuerteStu]

Could it be a class two fitting (all plastic and no earth). And you're confusing the earth and neutral? 

 

Perhaps the wiring you have (red/black + other) is a live, switch live and neutral. 

 

I think we'll need the instructions and wiring diagram to confirm. 

[Nickfromwales]

PIR lights will usually have a connector block with 4 terminals. 
 

1) earth (usually just somewhere to park the earth that you have at the end of your cable, and not always needed if “double insulated”)

2) N neutral

3) L permanent live 

4) SW L switched live 

 

Some will have the L disappear into the fitting and feed the sensor, and then the sensor sends the SW L output back to 4. The factory wiring then has the live to the lamp in there too.

 

Some are set up so you don’t see the 4 terminals, as the factory working is contained within the unit, a-la most modern led floodlights, so you only get to give it L, N and E. 
 

9 hours ago, dave1967 said:

I can do but its just earth to earth . red to live and black to neutral. May be a dud light.

Do you have a link to the exact fitting you bought? 

[dave1967]

https://searchlightelectric.com/en-gb/searchlight-products/outdoor/outdoor-wall/maine-outdoor-wall-light-black-metal-1-clear-glass-280bk--pir

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, dave1967 said:

https://searchlightelectric.com/en-gb/searchlight-products/outdoor/outdoor-wall/maine-outdoor-wall-light-black-metal-1-clear-glass-280bk--pir

Just pics and words unfortunately. 
 

Can you take a pic of the instruction manual and post it here? 
 

Just take the pic and save it to your photos. 
 

Then click add files below the text editor here and it’ll ask you to choose photo. 

[dave1967]

[ProDave]

So it is a simple L,N,E connection no need for any switched L.  So it should just connect in place of the old lamp.

[dave1967]

That the issue . its dead. Ive been told i could have a live and switched live to it instead of neutral and thats why it wont work. Makes no sense to me.

[Nickfromwales]

4 minutes ago, dave1967 said:

That the issue . its dead. Ive been told i could have a live and switched live to it instead of neutral and thats why it wont work. Makes no sense to me.

Ah. 
 

“No”.

 

Whoever told you that needs to lay off the crack pipe. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 

[ProDave]

But the old light MUST have had neutral to it, so I still don't see why you cannot connect the same L, N, E that previously went to the old light, to this new one.

 

As already mentioned you will have to leave the switch in the house turned on all the time for it to operate automatically at night.

 

Post pictures of the actual cable you have coming from the house and how you have actually connected it to the light.

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

But the old light MUST have had neutral to it, so I still don't see why you cannot connect the same L, N, E that previously went to the old light, to this new one.

 

As already mentioned you will have to leave the switch in the house turned on all the time for it to operate automatically at night.

 

Post pictures of the actual cable you have coming from the house and how you have actually connected it to the light.

Yup.

 

If the old one worked, this one can be made to work.

 

Light needs to come off and we need to see some pics, whilst I’ve still got hair! 🙃

[ProDave]

17 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

whilst I’ve still got hair!

That ship has sailed for me.

[Temp]

Try the bulb in another fitting? 

 

Have you checked the configuration switch settings? I would note the default settings and then try the last example (works night and day). 

 

Try temporarily hooking up a simple pendant to check the house wiring.

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

29 minutes ago, Temp said:

Try the bulb in another fitting? 

 

Have you checked the configuration switch settings? I would note the default settings and then try the last example (works night and day). 

 

Try temporarily hooking up a simple pendant to check the house wiring.

 

 

 

From what I gather, and as per Dave above, there was a working light here before. 

[dave1967]

Yes. Just brought the light to my house and wired it up inside and it works perfect. Checked the terminals and live light screwdriver. Neutral doesn't. At the other house both live and neutral lite screwdriver. Confused.