Who has experience with graphene infrared underfloor heating?

[JKami84]

Make it make sense ... 

I can't have water based. I will have radiators in the area as primary heat should I need. But we want tiles rather than LVT or warmer flooring ... So considering a type of electric underfloor heating. 

Radiant heating 360 have a product called i-warm core they say is graphene infrared. They are saying it's much cheaper than electric for running costs. 

 

I don't get it? I pressed them than IR heating such as lamps in pubs and warehouses heat objects not the air and this was there response - 

 

"you are correct in describing infrared, where it warms you directly, objects and in turn the thermal mass of the room, not air or convection heating. Ours is graphene infrared, which is on the far infrared spectrum, which means heat up time is rapid due to the science behind graphene. 

By doing this transfer time due to what I’ve mentioned above is very fast, meaning lower running temps are used and by the thermal mass of the room staying warm longer, this means lower consumption, which equals lower running cost. 

Electric mat heating warms the floor, which has always been considered a luxury & expensive running cost wise. This is because it works very similar to convection heating, where the warmth is trying to escape - I hope this explanation helps. 

 

Our i-warm core range is designed to be imbedded into screed, using somewhat traditional build up measures".

 

[JohnMo]

20 minutes ago, JKami84 said:

can't have water based. I will have radiators in the area as primary heat should I need. But we want tiles rather than LVT or warmer flooring

The reason for cold floors in houses without UFH, is generally down to on/off heating. So what happens, the radiators are run really hot, and people run short time schedules for heating.

 

What happens is the rooms become cold, the heating comes on the radiators get to a high temp really quickly. This gives a strong thermal current and pushes cold air down from the ceiling to your feet. This process continues until your thermostat or TRV says I am hot enough. The room cools and the process repeats. The short the heating period the pronounced the effect.

 

A better way is to run everything longer and cooler and let the house heat soak, then everything becomes more relaxed the thermal currents  are more relaxed, the floor takes a more room temperature so longer feels freezing under foot. Plus side of this approach a cooler house actually feels just as warm, but way more comfortable in general. And shouldn't use any more gas.

[Mike]

30 minutes ago, JKami84 said:

They are saying it's much cheaper than electric for running costs. I don't get it?

You're right not to get it - it's no different to any other underfloor heating.

 

This has come up before:

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Oh dear.

Must be getting close to Christmas when all the magic starts happening.

[JKami84]

48 minutes ago, Mike said:

You're right not to get it - it's no different to any other underfloor heating.

 

This has come up before:

 

 

I did read this a few days ago. I still didn't get how the IR for underground was vastly different to IR lamps. As you say , it's not different. If the IR is heating the floor, then it's just acting like normal electric mats by that point, right?

 

But I've allowed ChatGPT to explain it and it's more that it heats the person and floor more equally than waiting for the floor to get warm and then air to get warm. Almost like the sun being on you. 

I guess that could work, I've heard of it in ceiling IR panels. 

Also I need it to work with tile, I see no clear answers for that. 

 

Bottom line - we have rads already. We have now created a kitchen diner. So will either go tiles or LVT. LVT is our backup option if we are worried to have tiles without UFH. I'd love a wet system but looking at electric to take the edge of a very cold tile now and then. 

[-rick-]

'Infrared' in this context is marketing nonsense.

 

There is a point to exposed infrared emitters but you are going to bury these emitters underneath other surfaces so the infrared emission properties will be of the surface not this graphene nonsense. Any electric underfloor heating will be the same efficiency as these graphene ones and likely cost a lot less. Electric UFH mats are really cheap and theres no reason to pay more.

 

Now, electric UFH is a pretty poor way to heat a space, especially if the floor and house isn't well insulated but if you are only installing it as a way to take the edge off cold tiles then its running costs should be manageable with the right controls (ie, timers to limit its use to short periods).

[JKami84]

54 minutes ago, -rick- said:

'Infrared' in this context is marketing nonsense.

 

There is a point to exposed infrared emitters but you are going to bury these emitters underneath other surfaces so the infrared emission properties will be of the surface not this graphene nonsense. Any electric underfloor heating will be the same efficiency as these graphene ones and likely cost a lot less. Electric UFH mats are really cheap and theres no reason to pay more.

 

Now, electric UFH is a pretty poor way to heat a space, especially if the floor and house isn't well insulated but if you are only installing it as a way to take the edge off cold tiles then its running costs should be manageable with the right controls (ie, timers to limit its use to short periods).

 

Thank you. This type of reply is exactly what I needed. This isn't a question about whether  water Vs electric or IR is better. I know water is superior . I have experience with water UFH at my parents. They have no rads and it's just amazing. Here, We have just knocked through the kitchen into living room, we have rads and a new rad being installed - 14,000 BTU worth where we need 11,000 BTU. My wife wants tiles because nothing in LVT is really wowing us. We only considered LVT because we thought in winter months tiles may not be as cosy. 

We will probably have a rug in the living space anyway. And we have done all these years without UFH in our tiled kitchen no issue. 

It's as you say. Something to take the edge off. Say we have guests or kids around, couple of hours to take the chill out of tiles now and then in December and January During a social gathering. 

 

Electric mats 15sq meters. Under £500.

Edited 18 hours ago by JKami84

[Gus Potter]

11 hours ago, JohnMo said:

The reason for cold floors in houses without UFH, is generally down to on/off heating. So what happens, the radiators are run really hot, and people run short time schedules for heating.

 

What happens is the rooms become cold, the heating comes on the radiators get to a high temp really quickly. This gives a strong thermal current and pushes cold air down from the ceiling to your feet. This process continues until your thermostat or TRV says I am hot enough. The room cools and the process repeats. The shorter the heating period the more pronounced the effect.

 

A better way is to run everything longer and cooler and let the house heat soak, then everything becomes more relaxed the thermal currents  are more relaxed, the floor takes a more room temperature so no longer feels freezing under foot. Plus side of this approach a cooler house actually feels just as warm, but way more comfortable in general. And shouldn't use any more gas.

This is brilliant, great explanation of the fundamentals. 

[saveasteading]

11 hours ago, JKami84 said:

they say is graphene infrared

I assume this nonsense is only online I've noticed lies and nonsense like this on Facebook that is not qute repeated on a website link.

Ie you can lie on Facebook but it would be illegal under UK or EU law  (I saw   a supposedly very special electric heater that used electricity differently.).

@JKami84 well done for questioning this here. 

you haven't been caught out  but  others will unfortunately. 

 

Are these sellers of graphene infrared  liars or naive?

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Are these sellers of graphene infrared  liars or naive?

Like any snake oil salespeople, they’re both.

[SteamyTea]

I work with someone that has a house similar to mine, it is also on E7.

She decided that the old storage heaters were faulty, so had them replaced with new ones.

Guess what, she paid the same to heat the house.

Someone at work has lent her a small (500W) fan heater, as it 'only costs a penny to run'.  A penny on her tariff is about 2 minutes use.

When I questioned as to why the heater was so good and cheap to run, I was told 'because it is ceramic'.

 

Now theses twats know my educational background, have asked me in the past about the best things to do to reduce the monthly bills, and then ignored it.

I shall start taking in my bills and complain about my expenditure, which is about a third of theirs.

 

As a general rule, if 'science' is mentioned in some advertising, the product is crap.

No one mentions the polymer science of car tyres, or the electro-magnetic spectrum for a DAB radio, I really wish people would stop wishing things were magic and when they have bought them, convince themselves that they have made a good purchase.

[Big Jimbo]

Thats advertising for you @SteamyTea. Plug this tiny, (size of a fag packet) in, and it will heat up your whole house in 5 mins. As a bonus, it only costs 10 pence a day to run.

A few fake reviews on Face, or instashite, and suddenly you have sold several hundred thousand of the things at £20 quid a pop.

If it's on Faceshite, then it must be true.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

If it's on Faceshite, then it must be true.

You’ll have to eat those words when my £10k bag of magic beans finally arrive. 

[SteamyTea]

12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You’ll have to eat those words when my £10k bag of magic beans finally arrive. 

You lot use dragons to deliver them don't you.