Concrete floor pouring advice

[Coll659]

Hopefully the last time I bother you all with my floor. Next week I will be pouring the concrete floor in the house in renovating and looking for advice and tips. It's an old house with stone foundations, I dug out the old rubble that the old wood floor was sat on until I got to compacted ground and now have the following:

 

 -sand blinding

-30mm eps

-Dpm

-Insulation (200mm EPS in some places and 100mm PIR in others) 

-underfloor heating foil

-underfloor heating pipes stapled to insulation

-4mm composite rebar 150x150 on 50mm chairs

-30mm EPS insulation around edges and an expansion foam skirt

 

I'll be getting the concrete delivered with a pump truck and hoses in one go. The main entrance is marked with the red arrow in the picture before, I'll start in the back room and work my way towards the entrance. It's approx 110m2 in total. 

 

 

My questions are: 

 

How do I make joints between the rooms taking into account there will be underfloor heating pipes going through doorways. Should the slabs be completely separate for each room to avoid cracking and allow expansion? 

 

What advice and tips do you have to successfully pour it all. It will be the finish floor (just tiles and laminate going on top) so I need it smooth and level. I guess I need long straight pieces of wood or something for screeding. Should I make one for each room the full width of the room for screeding? but what do you normally use to screed from (like rails) 

Then a bull float and keep working back through the house to the entrance. And then I believe after it starts to dry a little you trowel it up? How long after pouring is this normally? 

 

Any advice or tips would be great. 

 

 

 

 

[Redbeard]

Where or what is your Vapour Control Layer? The only thing I can see in the right place is 

35 minutes ago, Coll659 said:

underfloor heating foil

If that's a VCL is it taped to within an inch of its life at all joints, penetrations and perimeters?

[Tom]

Apologies if I'm late to the game here, but do your walls have a DPM? Have you considered the risk of rising damp in the walls?

[Redbeard]

Out of interest, why 30mm EPS below the DPM?

[Coll659]

41 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

Where or what is your Vapour Control Layer? The only thing I can see in the right place is 

If that's a VCL is it taped to within an inch of its life at all joints, penetrations and perimeters?

From what I understood the underfloor heating foil does this job? But I will look more into this thanks. 

 

And yeah the walls have an old dpc (the hard tar like one, forgot the name of it right now?) it's old but doesn't seem to be letting any damp up through the walls and it has been empty and in heated for quite a few years. You can just about make it out in the picture below

[Coll659]

Just now, Redbeard said:

Out of interest, why 30mm EPS below the DPM?

Just to protect the DPM

[Redbeard]

10 minutes ago, Coll659 said:

Just to protect the DPM

It's a tiny point, but that's arguably what the sand blinding is for. I guess no harm having belt and braces!

[Iceverge]

I would recommend you get some experience help with this as it'll be a mess if it goes wrong.  What kind of team have you currently lined up? 

 

You could build an expansion joint into the doors to allow it to crack there. 

 

I wouldn't fret too much about DPC's in the walls but would ensure that the localises water table is well below it. 

 

You might need to add a french drain to the house if it isn't. 

 

The rest of the plan sounds fine. 

[Coll659]

Thanks for the advice. 

 

Currently I have a few people who have no experience but are useful for lugging around hoses where we need them, then there's me and one or hopefully two more people who are not professional builders but pretty good with this stuff and some experience of building work. I will see if I can get someone with experience but not sure if that will be possible yet. 

 

I'm thinking to use 100mm eps in all the doorways, set to the level of my concrete and put outer conduit pipe for my underfloor heating pipes to pass through, and tape up the ends. This will then make each room completely separate with it's own slab. I can then just put my flooring straight over the EPS. 

 

The water table is pretty high but the foundations come up above the ground quite a lot so my dpc and floor layer is well above water table. But I am also in the process of digging a french drain as well. 

 

Looking at local rental shops and see they have the vibrating bull floats and wondering if it's worth hiring one or just using a normal one

[torre]

Not something I've done lots of but this looks quite challenging to me given all your walls are in place and you've got to work your way out via three or four rooms, much harder than having access from all around the slab.

 

You've quite a lot of concrete and limited access and working time while aiming for a finish you can tile on. How are you setting your level throughout the building? You don't want high spots and I'd be prepared to accept being a bit low in corners that are hard to reach if you're feeling pushed for working time and budget for some self leveling compound. It looks tricky to get back through to trowel over too.

 

Would it cost much more to do two pours? looks like a single doorway divides the top and bottom of the floorplan. That might take the pressure off a bit and let you see how the first one goes. As @Iceverge said this is messy if it goes wrong.

 

[Onoff]

My 3x3m bathroom. I screwed "screed rails", (actually lengths of Unistrut), either side and made a tamping board. 100mm of wet concrete. Came out flatter than a flat thing.

 

 

[Onoff]

This is my room at the stage where the Type 2 hardcore on compacted ground had been sand blinded then had 25mm lain over it:

 

 

I squared of the old footings with shuttered concrete. The original tar DPC is at the top of the breeze block:

 

 

I then painted liquid DPM up to the tar DPC:

 

 

Then stuck 2" of EPS as perimeter insulation:

 

 

 

 

The went 1m up the wall with more DPM on the two external walls before studding:

 

 

[torre]

@Onoff nice job and that's closer to the size of floor I've done when renovating. The method works well, room or two at a time, even if inexperienced.

 

I don't think I'd have been confident to handle another 10 times the volume of concrete being poured in the next hour or two throughout the house though.

[Onoff]

Didn't someone on here get pumped, self levelling screed/concrete? You just pump it and it flows/levels itself to the required depth. 

[Coll659]

Thanks all for the advice. 

 

Definitely agree that the best advice is to not do it in one pour. Unfortunately for to a variety of factors i love if need to do it in one go. 

 

My plan is to cut all the perimeter insulation to the perfect level, plus the insulation in the doorways to level from. Perhaps a laser set up as well. 

[Onoff]

You could perhaps stick some eps blocks mid floor in the rooms to act as a level guide. Then dig out and fill later. 

[Coll659]

48 minutes ago, Onoff said:

You could perhaps stick some eps blocks mid floor in the rooms to act as a level guide. Then dig out and fill later. 

Good idea I'll consider that

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Coll659 said:

Good idea I'll consider that

 

Worth a thought too if you intend fitting a flush shower tray anywhere. Leave a big square/rectangle with the waste coming into it. Big block of eps. Later you can shunt the tray and waste around.