Norrsken - Let them airtight tape or do it myself?

[boxrick]

Hello folks! A quick sanity check. Norrsken want quite a sum of money ( it will be around £1200 inc vat on around 10 windows / doors )

Simply put should I leave it to them or do it myself? I am guessing there is a few hundred pounds worth of tape there. Norssken use 'Elite Installations' to do their installs.

[Redbeard]

I had some clients pay the window installer to tape. Much of it needed re-doing. It appeared that the fitters in that case did not have a full understanding of the (taping) job. It has been made more difficult by EU-exit, but I used to save a lot buying tape from Germany.

[Kelvin]

It’s not hard to do yourself and you will take great care over it. How confident are you they will. 
 

It will take you a while though so plan it in if you’re doing it yourself especially if there are any follow on trades that need it done before they can start. 

[jack]

41 minutes ago, boxrick said:

Hello folks! A quick sanity check. Norrsken want quite a sum of money ( it will be around £1200 inc vat on around 10 windows / doors )

Simply put should I leave it to them or do it myself? I am guessing there is a few hundred pounds worth of tape there. Norssken use 'Elite Installations' to do there installs.

 

We still have visible bits of airtightness tape at the junction between plasterboard and frame in some of our reveals. Ours is a combination of bad window installation, sub-optimal taping, and careless plasterers who did everything the easy way.

 

Personally, I'd absolutely do it myself if I were doing it again. I doubt it's difficult, but doing it properly takes good preparation, time, and attention to detail. There are good vids on YouTube showing what's required. 

[Nick Laslett]

So many different ways to approach this. The quoted price seems fine to me. Airtightness tape can be expensive for named brands. 
 

Here are some videos that you might find useful. But a lot depends on your wall construction and other factors. Are they using expanding compriband tape to fix the windows or foaming the gap?
 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:21 by Nick Laslett

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, boxrick said:

Norssken use 'Elite Installations' to do there installs.

Elite installations are great guys. they installed our doors and windows and couldn't be happier with their work. really nice to have on site as well. 

 

they didn't do our taping though as we did the whole house ourselves so i can't comment as to their ability with that!

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, Redbeard said:

but I used to save a lot buying tape from Germany.

still can. saves a fortune!

[Redbeard]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

still can. saves a fortune!

 

Good to hear that. Sadly the company I used to use had a 'no foreign sales' policy as soon as we left the EU. If you bought abroad who did you use, if I may ask?

[Thorfun]

39 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

 

Good to hear that. Sadly the company I used to use had a 'no foreign sales' policy as soon as we left the EU. If you bought abroad who did you use, if I may ask?

Latzel Dammstoffe. there are a few threads/posts on here about them. others have had success with them as well.

[Iceverge]

DIY for sure. 

 

Draw a line with pencil on the frame to mark the edge and it'll be 100%. 

It's much easier to do pre install if you have the time alone with the windows. 

 

You don't need to go to germany for tape, it's the install that matters. 

 

https://airtightnesstapes.co.uk/products/3100-black-airtight-tape?variant=48903193100567

 

This looks similar to the stuff i used. 

Edited Tuesday at 16:22 by Iceverge

[ectoplasmosis]

14 hours ago, Iceverge said:

 

 

https://airtightnesstapes.co.uk/products/3100-black-airtight-tape?variant=48903193100567

 

This looks similar to the stuff i used. 

Whats this stuff like? The price looks good, but how long will the adhesive last?

 

[craig]

22 hours ago, Nick Laslett said:

So many different ways to approach this. The quoted price seems fine to me. Airtightness tape can be expensive for named brands. 
 

Here are some videos that you might find useful. But a lot depends on your wall construction and other factors. Are they using expanding compriband tape to fix the windows or foaming the gap?
 

 

 

The principle is good but these are wrong, it gives a very false understanding.

There is a tolerance between the frame and building, whether 5 or 10mm, there is either bracket install or screwed through the frame, so the tape needs to be able to bridge those areas. Covering the brackets correctly, ensuring the membrane goes from frame to building and 99% of the time, the airtight membrane is fixed to the sides of the frame not the face of the frame.

A better video to watch would be the following.
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:43 by craig

[torre]

Thanks @craig that video highlights one reason why the installer might want to do this themselves (and to be fair the earlier video says at the end fixing tape to the sides is the best method) as I can see they may not be too happy to have you faffing around taping to the sides of their frames while they're trying to fit, but I'd at least want to know that's how they'd be taping and whether it's them or you responsible for priming reveals etc and what products they use.

 

Personally I think insulation and airtightness details tend to fall between trades and are sometimes seen as inconvenience and done badly, so I prefer to do them myself - time and attention to detail are things I have more of than a trade working with limited time to a fixed budget.

[Nick Laslett]

2 hours ago, craig said:

The principle is good but these are wrong, it gives a very false understanding.

There is a tolerance between the frame and building, whether 5 or 10mm, there is either bracket install or screwed through the frame, so the tape needs to be able to bridge those areas. Covering the brackets correctly, ensuring the membrane goes from frame to building and 99% of the time, the airtight membrane is fixed to the sides of the frame not the face of the frame.

A better video to watch would be the following.
 

 

Great post, @craig. Thank you for the corrections. Funnily enough, I actually followed the Illbruck install videos and used all their products. Really rate the compriband TP651 Trio and FM330 foam. I even bought the Illbruck shears and roller! I’ve got ICF walls, so some adaptation was required, my rough openings have built in eps “check reveals”, so the window frame sits in the middle of the wall where the cavity would be with a traditional block wall. I used Siga tape, because they explicitly list EPS as an acceptable substrate. I think Illbruck want you to use a primer for EPS, but could be wrong. The thing about EPS, is that there is quite a variation and quality difference between ICF manufacturers. I did a few tests to make sure I was happy with the tapes adhesion on the EPS. 
 

Here is the Illbruck “check reveal” video, I have bookmarked. 
 

https://youtu.be/OqFE5Yr6OZo?si=2LbElKxM0JWGCA90

Edited Wednesday at 13:43 by Nick Laslett

[saveasteading]

37 minutes ago, torre said:

sometimes seen as inconvenience and done badly, 

I have a photo, not to hand, of an electrician's slash to get a cable through a membrane. No attempt to minimise or seal it, and apparently no knowledge or interest in what the membrane is for.

They fitted wires and got paid for it, and nothing else mattered.

Diplomatically it is worth a word with the foreman to get their attitude, and establish whether they will now seal holes or not, and if you doing extra sealing behind them causes any issues to them.

 

 

[Iceverge]

7 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I have a photo, not to hand, of an electrician's slash to get a cable through a membrane. No attempt to minimise or seal it, and apparently no knowledge or interest in what the membrane is for.

They fitted wires and got paid for it, and nothing else mattered.

Diplomatically it is worth a word with the foreman to get their attitude, and establish whether they will now seal holes or not, and if you doing extra sealing behind them causes any issues to them.

 

 

 

I did every penetration of the envelope myself for this reason and designed out all but 5 wires through the roof membrane. 

 

I had an absolutely no blame policy if anyone accidentally made a hole.

 

"Just tell me and I'll patch it up" 

 

It worked well. 

 

 

[jack]

15 hours ago, Iceverge said:

I did every penetration of the envelope myself for this reason and designed out all but 5 wires through the roof membrane. 

 

I had an absolutely no blame policy if anyone accidentally made a hole.

 

"Just tell me and I'll patch it up" 

 

It worked well. 

 

Awesome, you were playing the role of "Airtightness Champion": https://carbonlite.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Aldas-12-Steps-to-Airtightness-revised-June-2019.pdf

[craig]

5 hours ago, jack said:

 

Awesome, you were playing the role of "Airtightness Champion": https://carbonlite.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Aldas-12-Steps-to-Airtightness-revised-June-2019.pdf

I know Paul well, anyone wanting a airtightness test, he is your man. Started the game back in the 80s before anyone else and his reports are spot on. You get what you pay for.

Edited Thursday at 18:39 by craig