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Jml

We have a problem! I/2 m ceiling collapse!

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Been away for a few weeks over christmas.  Came back saw we had few drops of damp above dining room table and table was damp. Today, few minutes ago, ceiling collapsed (see pic). Flat roof above is due to be replaced when we do our extension.  Is there a quick fix to stop water getting in?  What about expanding foam along crack, which joins two sctions of the flat roof ( see pic.) or any other suggestions welcomed, especially before it starts to rain again! 

05E819FA-36B4-406B-B311-F5AABCC14606.jpeg

928AC755-862C-470C-A199-30CFC89863A9.jpeg

379B4007-A6D3-4C86-A1F9-D35BF7D4F4EC.jpeg

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Get a trowel on roof repair compound. Wickes do a load of them. Like a thick mastic. Careful as not all can be applied to a damp/wet surface so read the tin. Yard broom the area of all the loose crap then trowel / smear the stuff on. It does work but is a stop gap.

 

I feel your pain. I've two flat roof dormers that are disintegrating. Spent a fortune on brush on watetproofing compounds like Flexacryl but it only buys a bit of time. The brush on acrylic type is different from the trowel on compound which is bitumen based.

 

I found the top layer of felt butted together rather than lapped!

 

SAM_2237

 

I've resorted to this at the moment:

 

SAM_2239

 

Edited by Onoff

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I went from this:

 

SAM_8190_zps23f51b89

 

SAM_8187_zps3f706615

 

To filling the edge splits with compound and localised painting over that and the old felt:

 

SAM_2237

 

To painting a bit of the roof:

 

Photo0094_zpsb2c2081a

 

Then a bit more, then the whole roof even buying a 20kg drum.  (I used Cromapol last time). Probably done £500 over a few years. And it still leaks.

 

Oddly, my leaks are confined generally to the edges (touch wood). It's a 3/4" plywood deck under mine. I reckon OSB would have long since fallen through.

 

This and the mirror image other side might have to be my next project but I want to sort the roof slope (raise), insulate the dormers better at the same time and maybe do fibreglass or EPDM.  (Quite fancy a go at how @Barney12 did his hidden gutters).

 

£££ & time! :)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Onoff
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Many thanks for the quick response, roofs look much like ours, ours look in worse state though! Have made emergency run to nearby toolstation and bought some stixall which have appliled liberally over obvious cracks.  Hopefully have found correct crack and will hold if rains tonight, otherwise will have waterfall in dining room! Will look at your suggestion later today, pretty damp up there so will check instructions carefully, many thanks for that tip.  Our flat roofs desperately need replaced, usually leak through light socket from internal drain in ceiling, which is cleared by hosing drains.  This is much worse though, not the most attractive ceiling feature!

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+1 to @Onoff's advice.

The only thing I'd add is use a blower if you can to clean off the roof: a broom takes ages, and will never be as thorough. As luck would have it, my repair lasted a few years - long enough for me to forget I had repaired it.

But you are right, it needs doing thoroughly.

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If you've "filled the crevasse" then ideally you need to put a waterproof layer over that and the adjacent felt. The acrylic ones I think can generally be applied to a wet substrate but are more expensive than the bitumen based ones. If doing a large area I look on the tin as to the square metre coverage and pour x litres dead centre of each square metre. Then use a cheap, soft bristle broom. Much quicker. Keep a litre back for contingencies! The acrylic stuff is weird, goes on like hairy paint (that's the fibres) then settles out smooth. If it's still hairy you're spreading it too thin!

 

Cromapol was the worst I've used for "spreadability" and working time compared to Flexacryl, Acrypol and Wickes own version. I would expect Evercryl from TS to be pretty good as most EverBuild products I've had are:

 

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p80073?table=no

 

I'd use Cromapol again though purely on price.

 

Shop around. You might want a 5kg / 5L tin as once you start sweeping and investigating things might look worse!

Edited by Onoff

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Rather than acrylic. This might be a cheap "overcoat", says in the tech data it can be applied to damp roofs:

 

https://www.everbuild.co.uk/product/906-bitumen-roofing-emulsion/

 

Thinking it's CHEAP to throw 5L at the area:

 

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Roofing+%26+Drainage/d250/Roof+Compound+%26+Waterseals/sd2809

Edited by Onoff

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Just to hijack this thread, :) My flat roof is one big one but it's split into two by the ridge feature:

 

SAM_2231

 

I think they first laid the ply deck then put down a first layer of felt across the whole area. Then they built the ridge from 4"x2" and felted, battened, tiled that. Subsequent re roof before we bought it saw them simply over felt what was there:

 

SAM_2231

 

SAM_2232

 

SAM_2233

 

The plan is to raise the roof pitch considerably but keep below the ridge line obviously!

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@Onoff  and @recoveringacademic  many thanks for advice and info.  Will formulate a plan tonight and hopefully get stuff tomorrow to make repair bit more permanent. Hopefully that  repair will last until we do our extension when roof was to be replaced anyway, with another flat roof! May look at that again and see if anyway can get pitched roof into design.  The smell of damp plaster and fluffy insulation coming from the dining room is not ideal!

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30 minutes ago, Jml said:

@Onoff  and @recoveringacademic  many thanks for advice and info.  Will formulate a plan tonight and hopefully get stuff tomorrow to make repair bit more permanent. Hopefully that  repair will last until we do our extension when roof was to be replaced anyway, with another flat roof! May look at that again and see if anyway can get pitched roof into design.  The smell of damp plaster and fluffy insulation coming from the dining room is not ideal!

 

If you make the new flat roof a fibreglass one it will practically last forever.  I helped a friend lay one on his garage, using a kit from Cornish Fibre Sports (now CFS since they've been online: http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/CFS_Catalogue__FLAT_ROOFING_21.html ) at least 35 years ago, and last time I saw him it still looked as good as the weekend we put it on.

Edited by JSHarris

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Just now, JSHarris said:

 

If you make the new flat roof a fibreglass one it will practically last forever.  I helped a friend lay one on hi garage, using a kit from Cornish Fibre Sports (now CFS since they've been online: http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/CFS_Catalogue__FLAT_ROOFING_21.html ) at least 35 years ago, and last time I saw him it still looked as good as the weekend we put it on.

 Many thanks, worth investigating as would need new planning application to change roof design. 

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3 hours ago, Onoff said:

  (Quite fancy a go at how @Barney12 did his hidden gutters).

 

 

Not sure what you are referring to here, but part of our flat roof has three drains to a hidden gutter which then comes out the side of the roof.  There is a leak somewhere in that system, also, as we have to regularly hose the guttering, which seems to stop it temporarily.  we did have 3/4 of a bucket through that leak whilst we were away, in the kitchen.  Would advise think very carefully about hidden gutters.  Our new one will not have that design, keeping it simple and hopefully leak free.

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1 hour ago, Jml said:

 Many thanks, worth investigating as would need new planning application to change roof design. 

 

Slightly confused here ..? If you are putting a flat roof on then why do you need to change PP unless it’s a very specific clause such as the roof must be in lead or asphalt..?? Fibreglass can be a multitude of colours and is a fantastic product for flat roofing and easy to DIY too. 

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Sorry not very clear.  Bad habit of knowing what I mean but not explaining very well, totally infuriates OH.

 

Given our problems with flat roof at moment was going to look again and see if we could fit a pitched roof or double pitched roof instead, for which would need planning.  That was when @JSHarris suggested fibreglass as a good durable roof surface, which might not leak over long period of time.

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On 07/01/2018 at 15:06, Onoff said:

Rather than acrylic. This might be a cheap "overcoat", says in the tech data it can be applied to damp roofs:

 

https://www.everbuild.co.uk/product/906-bitumen-roofing-emulsion/

 

Thinking it's CHEAP to throw 5L at the area:

 

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Roofing+%26+Drainage/d250/Roof+Compound+%26+Waterseals/sd2809

 

Went for this, many thanks for suggestion. Today first non drizzly day since roof collapse so first coat on, will do second tomorrow.  Stixall seemed to have stopped worse, as no water in house through drizzle, or perhaps it needs proper rain to get through crack.

 

p.s thanks to @prodave for recommending stixall in a different thread.

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Hopefully it's just a crack like split in the roofing board or it's just sodden. Once the boarding has caved in you're on a hiding to nothing especially with tradtional felt. What you've got isn't like slaters felt (string reinforcing), it relies on board to support it. Traditional felt is quite fluid, more so if warm and will gradually sunk into the hole.

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