Jml Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Been away for a few weeks over christmas. Came back saw we had few drops of damp above dining room table and table was damp. Today, few minutes ago, ceiling collapsed (see pic). Flat roof above is due to be replaced when we do our extension. Is there a quick fix to stop water getting in? What about expanding foam along crack, which joins two sctions of the flat roof ( see pic.) or any other suggestions welcomed, especially before it starts to rain again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Get a trowel on roof repair compound. Wickes do a load of them. Like a thick mastic. Careful as not all can be applied to a damp/wet surface so read the tin. Yard broom the area of all the loose crap then trowel / smear the stuff on. It does work but is a stop gap. I feel your pain. I've two flat roof dormers that are disintegrating. Spent a fortune on brush on watetproofing compounds like Flexacryl but it only buys a bit of time. The brush on acrylic type is different from the trowel on compound which is bitumen based. I found the top layer of felt butted together rather than lapped! I've resorted to this at the moment: Edited January 7, 2018 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) I went from this: To filling the edge splits with compound and localised painting over that and the old felt: To painting a bit of the roof: Then a bit more, then the whole roof even buying a 20kg drum. (I used Cromapol last time). Probably done £500 over a few years. And it still leaks. Oddly, my leaks are confined generally to the edges (touch wood). It's a 3/4" plywood deck under mine. I reckon OSB would have long since fallen through. This and the mirror image other side might have to be my next project but I want to sort the roof slope (raise), insulate the dormers better at the same time and maybe do fibreglass or EPDM. (Quite fancy a go at how @Barney12 did his hidden gutters). £££ & time! Edited January 7, 2018 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Many thanks for the quick response, roofs look much like ours, ours look in worse state though! Have made emergency run to nearby toolstation and bought some stixall which have appliled liberally over obvious cracks. Hopefully have found correct crack and will hold if rains tonight, otherwise will have waterfall in dining room! Will look at your suggestion later today, pretty damp up there so will check instructions carefully, many thanks for that tip. Our flat roofs desperately need replaced, usually leak through light socket from internal drain in ceiling, which is cleared by hosing drains. This is much worse though, not the most attractive ceiling feature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 +1 to @Onoff's advice. The only thing I'd add is use a blower if you can to clean off the roof: a broom takes ages, and will never be as thorough. As luck would have it, my repair lasted a few years - long enough for me to forget I had repaired it. But you are right, it needs doing thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) If you've "filled the crevasse" then ideally you need to put a waterproof layer over that and the adjacent felt. The acrylic ones I think can generally be applied to a wet substrate but are more expensive than the bitumen based ones. If doing a large area I look on the tin as to the square metre coverage and pour x litres dead centre of each square metre. Then use a cheap, soft bristle broom. Much quicker. Keep a litre back for contingencies! The acrylic stuff is weird, goes on like hairy paint (that's the fibres) then settles out smooth. If it's still hairy you're spreading it too thin! Cromapol was the worst I've used for "spreadability" and working time compared to Flexacryl, Acrypol and Wickes own version. I would expect Evercryl from TS to be pretty good as most EverBuild products I've had are: https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p80073?table=no I'd use Cromapol again though purely on price. Shop around. You might want a 5kg / 5L tin as once you start sweeping and investigating things might look worse! Edited January 7, 2018 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Rather than acrylic. This might be a cheap "overcoat", says in the tech data it can be applied to damp roofs: https://www.everbuild.co.uk/product/906-bitumen-roofing-emulsion/ Thinking it's CHEAP to throw 5L at the area: https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Roofing+%26+Drainage/d250/Roof+Compound+%26+Waterseals/sd2809 Edited January 7, 2018 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just to hijack this thread, My flat roof is one big one but it's split into two by the ridge feature: I think they first laid the ply deck then put down a first layer of felt across the whole area. Then they built the ridge from 4"x2" and felted, battened, tiled that. Subsequent re roof before we bought it saw them simply over felt what was there: The plan is to raise the roof pitch considerably but keep below the ridge line obviously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 @Onoff and @recoveringacademic many thanks for advice and info. Will formulate a plan tonight and hopefully get stuff tomorrow to make repair bit more permanent. Hopefully that repair will last until we do our extension when roof was to be replaced anyway, with another flat roof! May look at that again and see if anyway can get pitched roof into design. The smell of damp plaster and fluffy insulation coming from the dining room is not ideal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Jml said: @Onoff and @recoveringacademic many thanks for advice and info. Will formulate a plan tonight and hopefully get stuff tomorrow to make repair bit more permanent. Hopefully that repair will last until we do our extension when roof was to be replaced anyway, with another flat roof! May look at that again and see if anyway can get pitched roof into design. The smell of damp plaster and fluffy insulation coming from the dining room is not ideal! If you make the new flat roof a fibreglass one it will practically last forever. I helped a friend lay one on his garage, using a kit from Cornish Fibre Sports (now CFS since they've been online: http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/CFS_Catalogue__FLAT_ROOFING_21.html ) at least 35 years ago, and last time I saw him it still looked as good as the weekend we put it on. Edited January 7, 2018 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, JSHarris said: If you make the new flat roof a fibreglass one it will practically last forever. I helped a friend lay one on hi garage, using a kit from Cornish Fibre Sports (now CFS since they've been online: http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/CFS_Catalogue__FLAT_ROOFING_21.html ) at least 35 years ago, and last time I saw him it still looked as good as the weekend we put it on. Many thanks, worth investigating as would need new planning application to change roof design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Onoff said: (Quite fancy a go at how @Barney12 did his hidden gutters). Not sure what you are referring to here, but part of our flat roof has three drains to a hidden gutter which then comes out the side of the roof. There is a leak somewhere in that system, also, as we have to regularly hose the guttering, which seems to stop it temporarily. we did have 3/4 of a bucket through that leak whilst we were away, in the kitchen. Would advise think very carefully about hidden gutters. Our new one will not have that design, keeping it simple and hopefully leak free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Jml said: Many thanks, worth investigating as would need new planning application to change roof design. Slightly confused here ..? If you are putting a flat roof on then why do you need to change PP unless it’s a very specific clause such as the roof must be in lead or asphalt..?? Fibreglass can be a multitude of colours and is a fantastic product for flat roofing and easy to DIY too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Sorry not very clear. Bad habit of knowing what I mean but not explaining very well, totally infuriates OH. Given our problems with flat roof at moment was going to look again and see if we could fit a pitched roof or double pitched roof instead, for which would need planning. That was when @JSHarris suggested fibreglass as a good durable roof surface, which might not leak over long period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 On 07/01/2018 at 15:06, Onoff said: Rather than acrylic. This might be a cheap "overcoat", says in the tech data it can be applied to damp roofs: https://www.everbuild.co.uk/product/906-bitumen-roofing-emulsion/ Thinking it's CHEAP to throw 5L at the area: https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Roofing+%26+Drainage/d250/Roof+Compound+%26+Waterseals/sd2809 Went for this, many thanks for suggestion. Today first non drizzly day since roof collapse so first coat on, will do second tomorrow. Stixall seemed to have stopped worse, as no water in house through drizzle, or perhaps it needs proper rain to get through crack. p.s thanks to @prodave for recommending stixall in a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 once the crack is filled, a roll of torchon felt to cover and make watertight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hopefully it's just a crack like split in the roofing board or it's just sodden. Once the boarding has caved in you're on a hiding to nothing especially with tradtional felt. What you've got isn't like slaters felt (string reinforcing), it relies on board to support it. Traditional felt is quite fluid, more so if warm and will gradually sunk into the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Have you bought that roof repair compound yet? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WT1-Repair-Waterproof-Seal-5kg/182917865757?hash=item2a96c1211d:g:XVkAAOSw9~5ZU4b9 £££ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Onoff said: Have you bought that roof repair compound yet? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WT1-Repair-Waterproof-Seal-5kg/182917865757?hash=item2a96c1211d:g:XVkAAOSw9~5ZU4b9 £££ Ours was good bit cheaper! Will have to go up on the roof again and extend area covered as had persistent drip from the ceiling over the weekend from all the heavy rain and snow. Our first repairs got most of the leak but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 44 minutes ago, Jml said: Ours was good bit cheaper! Will have to go up on the roof again and extend area covered as had persistent drip from the ceiling over the weekend from all the heavy rain and snow. Our first repairs got most of the leak but not all. Same issue I've got! Did half the roof area really well a couple of times and it STILL LEAKED! Trouble is it will track from one point between the layers of felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Onoff said: Same issue I've got! Did half the roof area really well a couple of times and it STILL LEAKED! Trouble is it will track from one point between the layers of felt. Agreed. See this as one of those neverending stories..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Jml said: Agreed. See this as one of those neverending stories..... Re "felt" is the only answer I'm afraid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, Onoff said: Re "felt" is the only answer I'm afraid! It will have to last until extension bullt and it is replaced, so lots of temporary repair paint may be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Onoff said: Same issue I've got! Did half the roof area really well a couple of times and it STILL LEAKED! Trouble is it will track from one point between the layers of felt. this is the beauty of torched on felt, burn it straight onto the board and it can only leak where punctured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Simplysimon said: this is the beauty of torched on felt, burn it straight onto the board and it can only leak where punctured This stuff is good, torch on, embossed, aluminused "felt". Heat it up with a hot air gun. The backing goes molten and sticks like the proverbial: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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