What's the case for not getting an ASHP?

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

hope I am proven wrong this time

They have come down though.

Just not as much as you want them to.

There are many things that I want to be cheaper, housing is one of them. You don't want that to be cheaper though.

The cost of caring for the elderly is another thing I want cheaper, but I also want it to a higher standard.

 

Sometimes we just have to suck it all up, it hurts, but the alternatives are usually much more costly.

[MikeSharp01]

18 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

There will be plans about that.

Just does not make very interesting news.

While I am a heat pump advocate I don't think there is a plan. If there was we, many on here anyway, would be counting down the days. I remember pointing out a paper published by the energy department in December 2024 that says the plan is to rely on gas until 2050 so no plan until then by the sound if it so UK energy prices will remain above those of our competitors for a long time yet making us less competitive etc, etc. 

[Roger440]

1 hour ago, Dillsue said:

From the ENA website-

 

 GB DNOs will give you what you need to decarbonise your home for free, up to a 23kVA cable.

 

I beleive thats bigger than a 60amp supply. Maybe you're presenting your case in the wrong way??

 

They won't. 

 

It's not debatable. They won't do it. The publically stated position is as you say. However, when you read the detail of the policy, there are so many get outs and exclusions, most people won't get it. It's great PR, significantly divorced from reality.

 

Happy to take that debate offline, as it's not really for this thread.

[Roger440]

45 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

@ProDave

 

There you go, a few seconds googling.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-electricity-so-expensive/

This is old news. When will the change take place and prices come down.

 

I'll wait.

 

I'll be waiting a very long time. Because it's not going to happen.  To many invested interests in the status quo.

 

Indeed happy to bet that by 2030 will still be having the same discussion. How strong is your conviction?

 

[SteamyTea]

25 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

When will the change take place and prices come down

Well the auction for new generation closes today. Let's see what happens there.

 

I do find it strange that the technology is being misrepresented and blamed for high prices, when it is the large percentage of marginal pricing contracts that are the problem.

But it is OK, the Deform deputy leader (pretty easy job that as not many people to bully about) has said that 'the renewables industry is on notice' and the expert reports and surveys are lies.

 

I am now offering you all, exactly what you want to hear, as long as you vote for me.

No proofs needed as you can trust me because I have no political experience.

Edited 10 hours ago by SteamyTea

[Roger440]

42 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

They won't. 

 

It's not debatable. They won't do it. The publically stated position is as you say. However, when you read the detail of the policy, there are so many get outs and exclusions, most people won't get it. It's great PR, significantly divorced from reality.

 

Happy to take that debate offline, as it's not really for this thread.

 

Edited to add, national grid aka Western Powers policy is, no new connections over 80 amps. 23kva is circa 93.

 

Ive got a copy of said policy documents, and thats what it says. And thats what they are sticking too.

[Roger440]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Well the auction for new generation closes today. Let's see what happens there.

 

I do find it strange that the technology is being misrepresented and blamed for high prices, when it is the large percentage of marginal pricing contracts that are the problem.

Bur it is OK, the Deform deputy leader (pretty easy job that as not many people to bully about) has said that 'the renewables industry is on notice' and the expert reports and surveys are lies.

 

I am now offering you all, exactly what you want to hear, as long as you vote for me.

No proofs needed as you can trust me because I have no political experience.

 

You appear to be sidestepping the issue both myself and Dave have highlighted, ie the link with gas.

 

The auctions for renewables isnt relevant to that.

 

And i say again, if government were serious, they would do something about it. They are not and they wont.

 

So, again, lets bet on it. Or is it that really, you know im right and we will still have bonkers electricity prices come 2030.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Roger440 said:

You appear to be sidestepping the issue both myself and Dave have highlighted, ie the link with gas.

Then go back and reread what I said about the system is wrong, not the technology.

 

I also mentioned that the price has dropped, but you have not acknowledged that.

So stop being selective and belligerent and read what people bother to type, rather than you typing the same stuck record.

[Sparrowhawk]

On 20/08/2025 at 20:12, kentar said:

My boiler has died and I'm able to get a new ASHP installed via government grant. I have few concerns and i'd like some advice.

[...]

Are there any other considerations? I'm not interested in saving a few hundred quid a year if it means that an ASHP causes more issues than it solves.

 

Hi @kentar going back to your original post...  

 

Last year we got a replacement gas boiler installed by a Heatgeek accredited installer. For some of the same concerns you have. 

 

The installer usually installs heatpumps but I didn't see our house as heat pump ready for a few more years (Gus Potter summarised well on page 2) so while we could have gone heat pump we didn't. And it's been brilliant. We've ended up with a system that runs at a lower temperature (we changed a few radiators) using weather compensation. Hot water reheats in 10-15 minutes, and that meant we could save some space with a smaller tank.

 

So I'd say go for gas, and spend a bit more on an accredited installer to get an efficient setup.

[Roger440]

5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Then go back and reread what I said about the system is wrong, not the technology.

 

I also mentioned that the price has dropped, but you have not acknowledged that.

So stop being selective and belligerent and read what people bother to type, rather than you typing the same stuck record.

 

I know exactly what you said.

 

And sure prices have dropped from utterly bonkers to bonkers. But not because of decisive government action.

 

Unfortunately, in order to avoid the elephant in the room, you are adopting classic politicians behaviour and avoiding the issue.

 

Ill take your lack of willingness to bet on it as acceptance that the gas price artificial market issue isnt going away.

 

The reality is we could have sensible electricity prices, with all the advantages that would bring, but through government choice, we dont.

Edited 10 hours ago by Roger440

[SteamyTea]

Just now, Roger440 said:

Ill take your lack of willingness to bet on it as acceptance that the gas price artificial market issue isnt going away

Take it as you will. 

No point trying to convince you is there.

[Roger440]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Take it as you will. 

No point trying to convince you is there.

 

Convincing me is easy. When i see prices drop because they have resolved the gas price link.

 

You assert they will but offer no evidence beyond a pointless time wasting "consultation".

 

Forgive me if i dont believe you.

[MikeSharp01]

Interestingly the piece on the world this weekend has covered much of the ground in the gas / renewables price discussion above while getting people from Whitstable, where our new build is, to comment on the windfarm you can see from the beach as a proxy for how the country feels about windfarms. Worth a listen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002hl0g 

⁹

[saveasteading]

14 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

a pointless time wasting "consultation".

 

That is gross cynicism. To which I add that you have your opinion and would appear to not want things to change.

Thus you and the oil and gas industry do not want any consultation.

Change follows expert review and advice, and then perhaps it needs publicity and public opinion to make politicians look at it and take it seriously.

 

Meanwhile a large element of the press will resist change, aided by freely supplied (ready written articles effectively) counter-argument by the carbon industry.

 

Few politicians or journalists have scientific  knowledge or logic so they need the expert report, and they need to be pointed to it. By us.

There are plenty of consultations which have resulted in big change. 

[SteamyTea]

26 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Whitstable

Got taken there, in 1973, to see the sea frozen over.

Bet that has not happened in the last 2 decades.

[marshian]

52 minutes ago, Sparrowhawk said:

 

Hi @kentar going back to your original post...  

 

Last year we got a replacement gas boiler installed by a Heatgeek accredited installer. For some of the same concerns you have. 

 

The installer usually installs heatpumps but I didn't see our house as heat pump ready for a few more years (Gus Potter summarised well on page 2) so while we could have gone heat pump we didn't. And it's been brilliant. We've ended up with a system that runs at a lower temperature (we changed a few radiators) using weather compensation. Hot water reheats in 10-15 minutes, and that meant we could save some space with a smaller tank.

 

So I'd say go for gas, and spend a bit more on an accredited installer to get an efficient setup.

Or get familiar with what you need to ask the installer to set up - I would have loved a heat geek accredited installer last year but not one locally that would do a viessmann boiler the way I wanted it done - so I used the only Viessmann installer in 50 mile radius and told him exactly how I wanted the system set up X-plan DHWP and I initially got an S plan!!! (eventually we got there and I think he learnt a few things on the way) 

[JohnMo]

7 minutes ago, marshian said:

would have loved a heat geek accredited installer last year

Do the course be one yourself

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

am now offering you all, exactly what you want to hear, as long as you vote for me.

No proofs needed as you can trust me because I have no political experience.

Yes, but for so long now the electorate have been let down by broken promises.  Labour are in now only because people lost faith waiting for the consravative promises.  Labour seem set to break their promises.  If they have not made good by the next election you may well get Reform, as the electorate will have become fed up with the hollow promises from the established parties.

 

I don't see why the main parties don't see this and start being honest with the electorate.  There is no point saying you will do something then not doing it.

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

but for so long now the electorate have been let down by broken promises

Well I would also let everyone down, then run away.

 

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

start being honest with the electorate.

A large part of the populace don't want honesty.

Do many of those that supported brexit, now support reform... what does the Venn diagram say about this overlap I wonder.

All they want to hear is that it is the fault of foreigners, and life will be easy and prosperous  if they are got rid of.  "which we  will make happen".

 

Should the honesty include?..   Britain terrorised the world and some people became very rich.  it is our fault. Things will get worse from now on.

we must return to the old days of rich masters and poor workers who die in their 60s.  Off down the mines with you or whatever job we require.

Climate change is a huge problem.  You will have to pay more for power and water, and using roads.

Education is falling behind. Certain standards must be restored or your children won't get unemployment support.

All of this requires that you will pay more tax.

Now vote for our honest party.

 

Or just say, it's these foreigners' fault, vote for us and it will be sorted  and you will be prosperous... details to follow. It worked for Trump.

 

 

 

[marshian]

44 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Do the course be one yourself

to be honest at one stage I considered it 😉 however I’m a bit long in the tooth for a career change and I’m 5 years away from retirement 🙂 

 

but I wouldn’t mind setting myself up for a post retirement “heating optimiser” I don’t want to get involved in installs but I bet there are a lot of systems out there being run way more inefficiently than they are capable of being run…. Might make a nice beer money sideline  

[JohnMo]

I was considering just for the learning - not a career change 

[marshian]

1 minute ago, JohnMo said:

I was considering just for the learning - not a career change 

I get that hence the 😉 

[Roger440]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

That is gross cynicism. To which I add that you have your opinion and would appear to not want things to change.

Thus you and the oil and gas industry do not want any consultation.

Change follows expert review and advice, and then perhaps it needs publicity and public opinion to make politicians look at it and take it seriously.

 

Meanwhile a large element of the press will resist change, aided by freely supplied (ready written articles effectively) counter-argument by the carbon industry.

 

Few politicians or journalists have scientific  knowledge or logic so they need the expert report, and they need to be pointed to it. By us.

There are plenty of consultations which have resulted in big change. 

Gross cynicism bourne of decades of experience.

 

I'm not against change. But it needs to be for a purpose. If it's going to make me poorer, colder or whatever, let's be honest about it. Responding to climate change as is proposed will utterly destroy our way of life, our culture and future. We need to recognise that. The fairy tale future being pedaled is exactly that, a fairy tale.

 

All I have said is the changes being discussed, especially around electricity pricing, are not going to happen. Which, despite all the evidence, that nothings happening, for some reason appears to be an unpopular view.

 

I judge those that seek to govern us by what they do, not what they say. I've found that's worked well for me. So I'll continue in that vein.

[Roger440]

59 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Yes, but for so long now the electorate have been let down by broken promises.  Labour are in now only because people lost faith waiting for the consravative promises.  Labour seem set to break their promises.  If they have not made good by the next election you may well get Reform, as the electorate will have become fed up with the hollow promises from the established parties.

 

I don't see why the main parties don't see this and start being honest with the electorate.  There is no point saying you will do something then not doing it.

They do see it but it's not relevant to them. The purpose of government itself has been hijacked. It's not for the people any longer, it's for corporate and powerful individual advancement. And if course personal gain for those fronting it up. 

 

The faces at the top change, but behind that nothing changes.