Boiling water tap - Quooker alternatives

[Nick Laslett]

We have used Harvey Twin Tank Water Softener for more than 25 years in Kent. Good for a house of four. 
 

They usually last 10 years. 
 

https://www.harveywatersofteners.co.uk/products/water-softeners/

 

The newest model is overkill as it has SMART functionality!!!

 

We bought direct from these guys and self installed. 
 

https://newatersofteners.co.uk/collections/harvey-water-softener-range/products/harvey-twintec-s4?variant=44088604033260

 

 

 

[canalsiderenovation]

27 minutes ago, Nick Laslett said:

We have used Harvey Twin Tank Water Softener for more than 25 years in Kent. Good for a house of four. 
 

They usually last 10 years. 
 

https://www.harveywatersofteners.co.uk/products/water-softeners/

 

The newest model is overkill as it has SMART functionality!!!

 

We bought direct from these guys and self installed. 
 

https://newatersofteners.co.uk/collections/harvey-water-softener-range/products/harvey-twintec-s4?variant=44088604033260

 

 

 

I'm definitely going to look into the non electric ones, it's an absolute pain being an all electric house as we have frequent power cuts and I'm not fussed on smart functions, our wifi signal is crap even with a mesh system and seems to be even worse since Openreach insisted on upgrading to digital.. if our phone signal was any good I'd do away with any form of router but it isn't and that's a whole new issue.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Gone West said:

Not actually true. We've used Kinetico in the past as a whole house water softener. The twin cylinder softeners are good because they can soften water using one cylinder while the other cylinder is being regenerated.

Sorry, yes the larger capacity units can. I meant the single 'cartridge' types are usually not 'man enough'.

 

Multi-tasking atm which never goes well....

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Nick Laslett said:

They usually last 10 years. 

What mileage have you got out of the units over 25 years? Same one or 2.5 replacements?

[Nick Laslett]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

What mileage have you got out of the units over 25 years? Same one or 2.5 replacements?

The one in our one bed rental flat is still going, installed in 2000. The one in our 4 bed house was replaced after 14 years. The engineer from Harvey quoted the 10 year average lifespan. 

[LnP]

It's worth thinking about whether you're happy to drink softened water. I'm not an expert and can't give advice but in principle, water softeners work by exchanging calcium and magnesium ions for sodium ones. So e.g. calcium carbonate is converted to sodium carbonate. Calcium carbonate precipitates out when you heat it, i.e. hardness, but sodium carbonate is completely soluble, so stays in solution. The harder the water, the more Ca and Mg ions need to be exchanged and the more sodium ones will be in the water. With a water softener you'll be consuming more sodium ions and the harder the water is, the more sodium ions you'll be consuming. I found this from Kinetico.

[Russdl]

A Combimate solves the potential problem of drinking softened water whilst still keeping lime scale at bay.
 

(There are probably other water conditioners out there but I don’t know of any).

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, LnP said:

It's worth thinking about whether you're happy to drink softened water. I'm not an expert and can't give advice but in principle, water softeners work by exchanging calcium and magnesium ions for sodium ones. So e.g. calcium carbonate is converted to sodium carbonate. Calcium carbonate precipitates out when you heat it, i.e. hardness, but sodium carbonate is completely soluble, so stays in solution. The harder the water, the more Ca and Mg ions need to be exchanged and the more sodium ones will be in the water. With a water softener you'll be consuming more sodium ions and the harder the water is, the more sodium ions you'll be consuming. I found this from Kinetico.

I always fit a raw cold supply to the kitchen sink for ‘human consumption’, and usually that’s in the form of a 3rd party faucet or a filtered water gadget of some sort, often preceded by a charcoal or other filter.

 

I worked for 2 doctors and they didn’t have stupidly hard water so they instructed me to put the softened feed to the kitchen mixer tap as is, with zero faff.

 

If 2 doctors will drink softened water then who am I to argue? 

[Mike]

3 hours ago, LnP said:

It's worth thinking about whether you're happy to drink softened water.

It's recommended that there should be a supply of unsoftened water in the kitchen - either feeding the kitchen tap, or a separate one like @Nickfromwales provides.

[canalsiderenovation]

If we do have a Kinetico we would keep the Quooker for a while and the associated Cube which also has a water filter for cold water. It would therefore filter the water that has already been softened. I do drink a lot of water so I'm a bit worried if it's particularly bad to drink softened water.

[Nick Laslett]

Drinking water quality… HUGE can of worms!!!

 

We are in the safe hands of Ofwat and the commercial water companies for the quality of our drinking water!

 

Here is a UK Government note on Water Hardness:

 

https://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/learn-more-about-your-water/water-hardness-hard-water/

Document ‘G’ sets out the regulations. Here is an FAQ that covers the topic of “wholesome water”:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a81a884e5274a2e8ab552a5/160321_Part_G_FAQ.pdf

Here is a good primer on the topic of softened water from a water treatment specialist:
 

https://watertreatmentservices.co.uk/drinking-softened-water/

 

Here is the standard for our water:

 

https://www.dwi.gov.uk/drinking-water-standards-and-regulations/

 

You can check your local water quality on your suppliers website. Here is an example. 
 

https://www.stwater.co.uk/my-supply/water-quality/check-my-water-quality/

 

Use the Water company HQ post code CV1 2LZ for results. 
 

TLDR, Your main drinking water supply should be from the mains. Recommendation is not to regularly consume large quantities of water that contains more than 200mg/L of sodium. You will need to test the water provided by your water softener to see if it is below this limit. 
 

For a comparison reference, here is the water analysis for Buxton Mineral water

 

https://www.buxtonwater.co.uk/bottled-water/still

 

WHO paper on Sodium in drinking water:

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/wash-documents/wash-chemicals/sodium-background-document.pdf

 

 

Edited Sunday at 00:00 by Nick Laslett

[sharpener]

17 hours ago, Nick Laslett said:

TLDR, Your main drinking water supply should be from the mains. Recommendation is not to regularly consume large quantities of water that contains more than 200mg/L of sodium.

 

Has been the received wisdom for decades. I would be particularly hesitant to drink softened water if immunocompromised, have high blood pressure or less than perfect kidney function.

 

Difficult to avoid entirely as our tap water comes ultimately from Dartmoor so quite acidic. A SWW chemist told me they treat it with NaOH to raise the pH. But according to the calculator at www.aqion.de only 0.1 mg/l is required to raise it to pH 8.4 so it is miles below the 200 threshold.

 

Nearly all the outlets in the house are fed from harvested rainwater; to raise the pH we treat it with NaHCO3 at about 100g/m^3, which is quite a lot of sodium. So we have tap water piped to drinking water taps in the kitchen and bathrooms.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 17:32 by sharpener

[canalsiderenovation]

I need to see if we can get cold water from the mains and if it is viable with the Quooker Cube (which has a filter). I'll have to ask Wrekin Water when they come out next week and see what they suggest.