SAP software recommendations?

[Drellingore]

'ello folks,

 

Is Elmhurst's Design SAP 10 the go-to for DIY SAP calculations?

 

I need to do SAP calcs for our barn conversion, and we ideally need to get to 110+ for the best possible interest rate discount from Ecology Building Society. We were previously aiming for EnerPHit standards (Passivhaus for conversions), but we'd need to go through all the palaver of certifying to get the discount from the mortgage lender. I want to try the calcs myself rather than paying someone else to play 'thermal battleships' via an email exchange.

 

We appointed a certified Passivhaus professional, and feel pretty let down by his dogmatic ways: for weeks we've been asking about solar glass, and he eventually delivered a design that required 77% opaque shutters on every window, including north and east-facing, which would require a new planning application. He refused to look into solar glass ("it'll change the quality of the light" and "I've never used it before") and then wanted to charge an extra hourly rate to do the thing we'd been asking for for weeks. So I got a Passivhaus licence, and within twenty minutes had proven that solar glass would mean no shutters required while staying within heat demand and overheating limits.

 

BTW, for folks that remember my journey to this point: Grand Designs have commissioned the episode. Paperwork is to be signed next week.

[SteamyTea]

12 minutes ago, Drellingore said:

Grand Designs have commissioned the episode.

So you will be let down by the window supplier, get pregnant and have a death.  Not to mention KM talking in whispers behind your back, but to the camera.

You can tell him that he was right about a comment I made that he replied to, was about thermal mass, and I was a teacher when I made it.

[JohnMo]

Hope your house is a behemoth of a house he hates them.

[BotusBuild]

32 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

So you will be let down by the window supplier, get pregnant and have a death

Don't forget going over budget

[SteamyTea]

Just now, BotusBuild said:

Don't forget going over budget

Shopping in Budgens will do that for you.

 

[JohnMo]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Shopping in Budgens will do that for you.

 

Going to Costco does, wife wanted some more dishcloths, managed to spend £300, on what not much idea.

[Drellingore]

😆

 

Cheers for the all the insight into SAP, folks 😉

 

I gather that over the years one of the things that has changed is that Kevin McCloud is involved in the commissioning process now. This means that they filter out all the things he doesn't like, so he's not forced into the position of having to present something he disapproves of.

 

Guessing we're not Grand Designs fans here, then? I saw a thread previously accusing it of being "woke", which I found rather curious having worked for a Bay-area tech company. I suspect my definition of "woke" differs quite significantly from the average self-builder's 😄

[JohnMo]

What does

37 minutes ago, Drellingore said:

"woke"

Even mean, except I just woke up, only time I ever heard it mentioned. Must live a sheltered life.

 

I'm a fan of Grand Designs, could do with more technical details, but is only a hour program with adverts.

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

could do with more technical details, but is only a hour program with adverts

For an audience that failed GCSE science and are scared of numbers without a £ sign in front of them.

[DevilDamo]

So are you a qualified and accredited SAP assesor?

[JohnMo]

25 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

For an audience that failed GCSE science and are scared of numbers without a £ sign in front of them.

Most possibly never did the a science subject.  But doesn't mean you have to take things down to a level, to fit the lowest common denominator.

[saveasteading]

14 hours ago, Drellingore said:

Grand Designs have commissioned the episode.

Interested to know why you volunteered.

 

 

[Drellingore]

11 hours ago, DevilDamo said:

So are you a qualified and accredited SAP assesor?

Nah. What I've learned this far in the project is that I do a better job than most (but not all) of the professionals we've paid. If I have to do the legwork to then hand it over to someone qualified to rubber-stamp, that's better than spending weeks waiting for someone who has multiple priorities and little incentive to come up with novel solutions. It seems the construction industry is full of people that only do things the way they've always done them, and think everything else is impossible.

[Drellingore]

9 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Interested to know why you volunteered.

 

There's a few reasons:

• You get a letter so suppliers can say "as featured on Grand Designs," which allows you to negotiate discounts
• Suppliers don't want to look bad on national telly, so give you better treatment
• If we Airbnb the second building, then we've just got a free advert on national TV
• It'll be nice for the kids to be able to watch and one day hopefully show their kids
• The barn is a non-designated heritage asset, and so it'll be nice for future generations to know about this stage of its evolution
• It's much less work for us than trying to self-document the journey as a vlog or something
• The wife works in interior design and interior architecture, so it'll be great promotion for her career
• We used to watch Grand Designs when we first got together nearly twenty years ago, thinking "I'll never be able to afford to do that." So it's kinda nice being able to say that now we've 'done it' (obviously assuming the project succeeds!)

[Alan Ambrose]

The hive mind on ‘t ‘ub regards SAP as currently necessary but useless and counter-productive. Will Ecology accept the PHPP result instead?

 

I second your thoughts re typical contractors / consultants. There are some v good ones, but for run-of-the-mill ones, I figure I can usually equal them the first time out and then do a better job the second time. Sure, there are some skilled trades e.g. plastering, cabinet making etc where I figure I don’t. Also, you know what you want - so you avoid the communication problems and having to argue them back from their standard ways of working. Sometimes the latter takes months.

 

Also, I’m quite pernickety so I’ll make the extra effort to get it right whereas it’s not the contractor’s house so they usually don’t.

 

The problem then is that there’s a tendency to do everything, so I’m trying to be more conscious of supervising the bits more closely that I care about.

Edited 13 hours ago by Alan Ambrose

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, Drellingore said:

that I do a better job than most (but not all) of the professionals we've paid. If I have to do the legwork to then hand it

Bravo. Good plan. Some 'experts' ( mostly in these recently created specialities) are lacking but must have known how to pass the exam.

Others are technically good but don't consider options or cost.

I hate it most when they write in a supervisory role for themselves.

Mostly I have encountered these at planning stage.  Some I submitted very detailed counter-arguments and succeeded. Archaeology; planting;  newts; Breeam; come to mind. On one of those I even achieved a certificate without much study.

The experts back down if the argument is strong.

[DevilDamo]

39 minutes ago, Drellingore said:

If I have to do the legwork to then hand it over to someone qualified to rubber-stamp,

Hopefully, that does work out for you as it doesn’t always help or ends up being more cost effective with a lot of construction professionals.

[Nick Laslett]

@Drellingore, I used the Stroma SAP software to do my “as designed” submission in 2021. 
 

This was a free download at the time. Here is a good thread discussing various approaches to SAP
 

This thread links to the current download I think. 
 

 

Then this is another good discussion about using the Stroma software. You needed to edit the PDF output to remove the DRAFT watermark. 
 

 

[Gone West]

Fifteen years ago I did my own PHPP calculations and they were accepted by DDC BC instead of 'as designed' SAP calculations.

[SteamyTea]

6 hours ago, Gone West said:

Fifteen years ago I did my own PHPP calculations and they were accepted by DDC BC instead of 'as designed' SAP calculations.

Was that using dedicated software, or like a constipated mathematician, you worked it out with pencil and paper?

If the latter, I am sure there is enough knowledge on here, that suitable calculations can be created.

Maybe a new section in 'Boffin's Corner' can be created with some suitable templates and instructions to follow.

[MikeSharp01]

7 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

constipated mathematician, you worked it out with pencil and paper?

In my day, young man, we worked such things out with a slide rule!

[SteamyTea]

Just now, MikeSharp01 said:

In my day, young man, we worked such things out with a slide rule!

Can help shifting those logs, as long as the mantissa is correct.

 

 

(I am old enough to have had to use slide rules as well, why do you think BL cars were so hopeless)

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said:

In my day, young man, we worked such things out with a slide rule!

Seriously, that was a very useful discipline in teaching the power of ten and having an understanding of numbers being big or small.

Also in significant figures when using one of these new calculator thingies.

[saveasteading]

11 hours ago, Drellingore said:

the legwork to then hand it over to someone qualified to rubber-stamp, 

To be completely fair I should have added that some consultants, real Professionals capital P, relish information and ideas and practical input on construction and cost from clients and contractors.

 

I recall multidisciplinary design-and-build projects where we effectively won a project in that meeting. Architect,  Civil Engineer, QS, electrician,  plumber and contractor (design managers and construction manager). What a great buzz and commitment from all parties.... Great for Client value too, but the other 3 contractors were wasting their time for the next few weeks to tender.

Sorry, wandering off there... 

Teamwork and enthusiasm, and the ruthlessness to dismiss non team-players is my point.

 

BH offers some of this.