Steel ring beam installation for timber frame - how hard can it be?

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

So we're getting quotes in for a steel ring beam for our timber frame to sit on. The design structure is quite straight forward and it will sit on screw piles. I'm an engineer and familiar with designs that come with torque specifications on every nut and bolt; I'm not expecting this of the ring beam. The design and connections are straight forward, and we will be measuring prior to manufacture in order to get the fit correct. I'm looking at working with my builders to install the ring beam and the block and beam floor in order to save some serious money (quoted c.15k installation).

 

Has anyone done this before? when steelwork is bolted to a concrete foundation, is there a torque setting expected, or is it as basic as I'm expecting on a building site?

 

Is there something I should be considering? The task isn't technical - the technical bit is all in the design and measure before manufacture; the building control inspector is looking at the build matching the SE-specified design.

 

TIA

[Alan Ambrose]

Well that sounds an interesting project. Torque settings, to me, suggests a rather finer level of engineering sophistication that I associate with residential construction. Maybe steel frames for skyscrapers would? But I suspect not.

 

>>> Is there something I should be considering?

 

Well obviously the thermal detailing is hard around structural members that are good heat conductors. I expect some marmox blocks somewhere involved as a compromise. You’re happy with the expected life of screw piles?

 

Sounds a great project, have a drawing or two?

[Gus Potter]

22 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

You’re happy with the expected life of screw piles?

Take this on board. Ensure your research is sound.

[Gus Potter]

On 12/06/2025 at 21:25, Great_scot_selfbuild said:

So we're getting quotes in for a steel ring beam for our timber frame to sit on. The design structure is quite straight forward and it will sit on screw piles. I'm an engineer and familiar with designs that come with torque specifications on every nut and bolt; I'm not expecting this of the ring beam. The design and connections are straight forward, and we will be measuring prior to manufacture in order to get the fit correct. I'm looking at working with my builders to install the ring beam and the block and beam floor in order to save some serious money (quoted c.15k installation).

 

Has anyone done this before? when steelwork is bolted to a concrete foundation, is there a torque setting expected, or is it as basic as I'm expecting on a building site?

 

Is there something I should be considering? The task isn't technical - the technical bit is all in the design and measure before manufacture; the building control inspector is looking at the build matching the SE-specified design.

 

TIA

Hope this helps.

 

If you are using ordinary bolts then here is a bit of info below: But if using resin anchors you'll often find the torque setting in the manufacturer's data, don't exceed these!

 

The main thing is to apply common sense. Don't let the bolts get dirty or lose the manufacturer's oiled coating or store them badly for example, don't add oil either!

 

 

Now in the table above we can see a typical torque for an ordinary bolt with a spanner 460mm long. For an M16 bolt we are looking at approximately 90 Nm. What does that mean on site?

 

Ok roughly 100 Newtons is about 10 kg. If the spanner was 1.0metre long then we would need to apply 9 kg to the end of the spanner to generate 90 Nm on the head of the 16mm diameter bolt. But say your spanner is 460mm long (0.46 m) or 18 inches roughly. The sum is 10kg / 0.46 = 22 kg applied right to the very end of the spanner. So very roughly imagine you lift a 25 kg bag of cement with one hand... get a feel for that and then try and apply the same force when bolting up.

 

For bolt groups you'll know that we tighten them in sequence, gently going round an tightening them in stages.

 

All the best with the project and post some photos if you feel able.

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

I used to build lots of steel buildings. Torque was a real thing but we were instructed by the steel designers not to be too technical about it, but to turn the nut until it feels tight and then one turn more.

As above, it is more important that the nut turns on smoothly and you are only tightening: not trying to close gaps.

 

Also , whether the anchor is solid is critical. I once pulled a resin anchor out simply by turning the nut on , and it never became tight. ( the anchor was by others, and the resin was missing the second part).

 

Steel in wet conditions with oxygen will rust and fail. What spec are you using to avoid this?

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

On 12/06/2025 at 23:13, Alan Ambrose said:

Well that sounds an interesting project. Torque settings, to me, suggests a rather finer level of engineering sophistication that I associate with residential construction. Maybe steel frames for skyscrapers would? But I suspect not.

 

>>> Is there something I should be considering?

 

Well obviously the thermal detailing is hard around structural members that are good heat conductors. I expect some marmox blocks somewhere involved as a compromise. You’re happy with the expected life of screw piles?

 

Sounds a great project, have a drawing or two?

Thanks - I’ve just received and posted as a separate topic about thermal bridging question.

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

8 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I used to build lots of steel buildings. Torque was a real thing but we were instructed by the steel designers not to be too technical about it, but to turn the nut until it feels tight and then one turn more.

As above, it is more important that the nut turns on smoothly and you are only tightening: not trying to close gaps.

 

Also , whether the anchor is solid is critical. I once pulled a resin anchor out simply by turning the nut on , and it never became tight. ( the anchor was by others, and the resin was missing the second part).

 

Steel in wet conditions with oxygen will rust and fail. What spec are you using to avoid this?

Indeed - I’m please to hear that the stuff I’m focussed on (a lot!) is the bits others would recommend.

 

The engineer initially specified everything (literally) to be galvanised, but then he has a tendency to over-spec. We’re having to consider carefully what we go for as galvanised vs. Zinc oxide. It’s all going to be well protected from the elements and I have to keep reminding myself that one of the alternatives was a timber ring beam (saw an example of a house using this), and so a well-maintained steel ring beam already has a far longer lifespan). Plus we’re not in a challenging environment (not exposed, not next to the sea etc.).

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

9 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

Take this on board. Ensure your research is sound.

The score piles is something I researched significantly and is actually the least of my worries with the ones we’ve gone for (Quadrabuild, aluminium alloy helical screw piles) and we’re in a good sand-soil location (the area around us used to be a sand quarry in the late 1800s and the plot was set out in 1908 but never built on). Ground tests reached ‘refusal’ at around 2 - 2.5m.

[saveasteading]

Re steel rusting.  I've seen completely wasted structures, usually indoors in an aggressive environment. But also steel that's been exposed to the elements for 40 years, with only red oxide paint, and it is still sound.... it wets and dries again.

But in or near the ground I'd say it should be rigourously protected. Perhaps galvanised, certainly painted, or both.  I have a lot of time for bitumen paint....easy to apply and then slurp more into the welds and corners. 

[saveasteading]

I can't remember why they were so against any use of torque specifications.

Perhaps the torque wrench reacted too readily to other resistances.  But overtightening appeared to be the main concern...does that damage the thread?

My feeling is that the torque wrench would remove the attention and "feel" that was more important.

Any Mechanical Engineers able to explain?

[Mr Punter]

Make sure your warranty provider and BC are 100% happy with the use of screw piles.

[FuerteStu]

56 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I can't remember why they were so against any use of torque specifications.

Perhaps the torque wrench reacted too readily to other resistances.  But overtightening appeared to be the main concern...does that damage the thread?

My feeling is that the torque wrench would remove the attention and "feel" that was more important.

Any Mechanical Engineers able to explain?

In my experience, over tightening of bolts is the main issue in metal failure. Not only can it damage the thread on the bolt and cause it to fail, but the abrasion of over tightening can remove the protective layer around it causing another weak point. 

 

Torque wrenches are as much about preventing over tightening than they are about tightening to a minimum torque.

 

And don't even get me started on split ring washers and them actually increasing the failure rate of bolts. 

[JohnMo]

14 minutes ago, FuerteStu said:

In my experience, over tightening of bolts is the main issue in metal failure. Not only can it damage the thread on the bolt and cause it to fail, but the abrasion of over tightening can remove the protective layer around it causing another weak point. 

 

Torque wrenches are as much about preventing over tightening than they are about tightening to a minimum torque.

Your torque tighten, to ensure the bolt is stretched and is ideally mid way in the elastic range of the bolt or stud. This allows for changes of temperature, vibration etc and the bolt to maintain tightness of the assembly.

 

If you under torque the bolt is not in the elastic range of the bolt material and if subjected to cyclic fatigue will give a very early failure of the bolt. It will break.

 

If you over torque the bolt goes out of the electric range of the bolt and will stretch the bolt permanently, the bolt will yield. At this point you are applying almost no clamping force with the bolt.

 

Your correct tightening torque changes due

Bolt minimum dia

Bolt coating 

Threads being lubricated

Grade of bolt - 4.8, 8.8, 10.9 etc

 

3 hours ago, Great_scot_selfbuild said:

aluminium alloy helical screw piles

So you have dissimilar materials, aluminium and steel. You hot dip galvanise the steel structure, but be aware a strong galvanic corrosion can occur especially when wet between aluminium and zinc (galvanizing). If the top of the screw piles are steel no issue, if they are aluminium - ideally you need an insulated bolt kit, this will sleeve the flange holes and below washers, the flanges would need to have gaskets as well.

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

10 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

Make sure your warranty provider and BC are 100% happy with the use of screw piles.

Both are good with this. Thank goodness as it's essential (RPZs).

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

8 hours ago, JohnMo said:

So you have dissimilar materials, aluminium and steel.

Great point. I've been so focussed on errors elsewhere in the design detail I haven't yet asked how the designers proposed this will be protected against.