Oops I knocked something

[canalsiderenovation]

Help!

 

I just noticed the water temperature had dropped massively and no water was heating up.

 

I must have knocked something. Its this...

 

Pushed it in and the water temperature rapidly increases and won't stop and keeps creeping up. So it goes from one extreme to the other. If I leave the cable out temp it shoots up, if I take it out it drops massively. And that is without the ASHP hot.water turned on so maybe its just showing the temp wrong! Eek what have I done?

 

 

Edited Saturday at 15:36 by canalsiderenovation

[canalsiderenovation]

Just to say there is no hot air blowing from the ASHP and yet the temp is creeping up when I shove that wire thing in... oh god

[SteamyTea]

21 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said:

Just to say there is no hot air blowing from the ASHP and yet the temp is creeping up

Does it have an electrical  immersion heater that is coming on?

 

Many reasons why a temperature probe may stop working.

Hard to tell from picture, but looks like only one wire is attached. Usually have 2 or 3.

[canalsiderenovation]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Does it have an electrical  immersion heater that is coming on?

 

Many reasons why a temperature probe may stop working.

Hard to tell from picture, but looks like only one wire is attached. Usually have 2 or 3.

 

There is an immersion as we have a solic but I'm not sure if that's coming on or not. What I don't know is if that's accurate and we have hot water or its not accurate and we don't! 

 

I don't want to leave it in as what's stopping the water heating up and heating up and boiling. Also if I take it out does that mean we lose all our hot water? Or how can we get hot water.

 

Had to happen on a bank holiday weekend 🙄

[SteamyTea]

The immersion should have its own over temperature cut out.

It may also have a manual thermostat. Switch it on when the PV stops producing and check on it every 20 minutes.

Or keep an eye on the smart meter display and wait for a 2.8 kW drop.

[canalsiderenovation]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

The immersion should have its own over temperature cut out.

It may also have a manual thermostat. Switch it on when the PV stops producing and check on it every 20 minutes.

Or keep an eye on the smart meter display and wait for a 2.8 kW drop.

 

 

I have no idea where the cut out is. I know we set the temp on the tank at about 50 degrees, I think it was under this. I don't know how to turn the manual thermostat on either!

 

 

[SteamyTea]

18 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

have no idea where the cut out is. I know we set the temp on the tank at about 50 degrees, I think it was under this. I don't know how to turn the manual thermostat on either

Cut out will be under that white cover, with the thermostat. They are usually combined. Often there is a small red pin that is used to reset them. Though not on all of them.

 

Follow the cable and there should be a switch somewhere. Though it may be inside your diverter.

[JamesPa]

1 hour ago, canalsiderenovation said:

Just to say there is no how air blowing from the ASHP and yet the temp is creeping up when I shove that wire thing in... oh god

Don't panic.  Seriously.  These things are pretty simple.

 

I think what you have knocked is the water temperature probe for the ashp.  Does your ashp controller have a water temperature display.  If so check what it says when the sensor is out and check that it changes to something sensible if you heat the sensor up gently (if it's sealed you can dunk it in warm water, if it's not sealed or you are unsure use a hair dryer at a distance).  That will confirm if the sensor is broken or not.

 

If it's broken it is probably just a wire and it can be reconnected. 

 

In the meantime can you just override any control from the ashp (probably by setting dhw to 'off' and use the immersion alone (does it have a separate control?)

 

As another approach altogether ( which might be worth trying first!) reinsert the temp probe (which looks intact in your photo, and is connected to a cable that likely has two or more wires so is probably as it should be) but push aq bit of (eg loft) insulation in after it (or cotton wool if you haven't got any loft insulation handy).  This will ensure it measures the water temp not a mix of water temp and air temp which of course it'll be lower.  Make sure the insulation doesn't surround the sensor however otherwise you will make things worse.

 

Not properly measuring the water temp would account for the temp creeping up.

Edited Saturday at 17:08 by JamesPa

[canalsiderenovation]

13 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Don't panic.  Seriously.  These things are pretty simple.

 

I think what you have knocked is the water temperature probe for the ashp.  Does your ashp controller have a water temperature display.  If so check what it says when the sensor is out and check that it changes to something sensible if you heat the sensor up gently (if it's sealed you can dunk it in warm water, if it's not sealed or you are unsure use a hair dryer at a distance).  That will confirm if the sensor is broken or not.

 

If it's broken it is probably just a wire and it can be reconnected. 

 

In the meantime can you just override any control from the ashp (probably by setting dhw to 'off' and use the immersion alone (does it have a separate control?)

 

Yes it's the ASHP DHW temp screen we are looking at. When the probe thing is out the ASHP DHW screen temp drops rapidly and when we push it back in it increases quickly and keeps increasing (I panicked at 65 degrees and took it out). That's what I'm confused with is how without the ASHP turned on and the probe in is the DHW temp on the ASHP screen increasing?

 

I don't know if we have a seperate immersion control. We have a Solic where any excess diverts to the tank and the Solic had a boost function...

 

I guess that would boost the temp but I don't know if I should keep the probe in or not.

 

It's my own fault the mop bucket is in there and I throw my gym flip flops on top of the tank to dry them and I presume today in between the gym and mopping the floors I've knocked something. We are now emptying the cupboard and trying to work out what's been knocked. It was working yesterday....

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Do you have lots of hot water?

 

I have a cheap indoor outdoor thermometer. For some reason the outside probe started reading way over temperature. Bringing the probe into the house and it started to read correctly. As it is a cheap thermistor, I have assumed it has got wet, changing the resistance, which changes the readings.

Now you mention a mop.

[Roundtuit]

If you've had some sun today the immersion will have heated the tank to a higher temp than the ashp would.  I think I'd stick it back in and wait for it to stabilise and see what happens.  You could always run some hot water off first to cool the tank if the high reading worries you.

[canalsiderenovation]

Think we have some success but I'm not sure what's happening.

 

ASHP is working now for the hot water but it heats it to 62.8 degrees then it goes off. We have only ever had it set to 50 degrees and it goes to 50.5 degrees maximum only even with solar diverting. It seems like for some reason our new temp is set at 62.8 degrees and I'm not sure what I've done to adjust the temp!

[canalsiderenovation]

2 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

If you've had some sun today the immersion will have heated the tank to a higher temp than the ashp would.  I think I'd stick it back in and wait for it to stabilise and see what happens.  You could always run some hot water off first to cool the tank if the high reading worries you.

 

 

We have the tank set to max of juat over 50 degrees so the solic stops diverting and goes to export (very minimum solar today it's bucketing it down). 

[JamesPa]

4 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

If you've had some sun today the immersion will have heated the tank to a higher temp than the ashp would.  I think I'd stick it back in and wait for it to stabilise and see what happens.  You could always run some hot water off first to cool the tank if the high reading worries you.

Agreed.  Alternatively the ashp might be doing it's legionella cycle, although your explanation is the more likely.

 

Put it back in, push a bit of insulation after it, see what happens.  Ashp cant overheat the water anyway and if it's the immersion it's an entirely separate fault.

Edited Saturday at 17:34 by JamesPa

[JamesPa]

3 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

ASHP is working now for the hot water but it heats it to 62.8 degrees then it goes off. We have only ever had it set to 50 degrees and it goes to 50.5 degrees maximum only even with solar diverting. It seems like for some reason our new temp is set at 62.8 degrees and I'm not sure what I've done to adjust the temp!

Did you push some insulation in after the probe (if you look around on the floor below the tank there may even be a nicely cut piece lying there)?

 

When does the ashp do it's legionella cycle.

 

I cant see that you have adjusted the temp, unless it's a very subtle fault with the sensor wire being slightly broken, bit check above first.

[JohnMo]

ASHP temp sensor is what you have in you hand. It works with ASHP controller to tell ASHP to heat the cylinder.

 

The immersion has its own thermostat under the white cover, it also has a safety thermal cut out, to stop the cylinder boiling if the immersion thermostat fails.

 

If you are heating via immersion the cylinder will heat to whatever the immersion thermostat is set at. It will ignore any the ASHP says.

 

Mine is set to max, so it heats to around 73 degs with enough excess solar.

[canalsiderenovation]

3 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Did you push some insulation in after the probe (if you look around on the floor below the tank there may even be a nicely cut piece lying there)?

 

When does the ashp do it's legionella cycle.

 

I cant see that you have adjusted the temp, unless it's a very subtle fault with the sensor wire being slightly broken, bit check above first.

 

Push insulation in after the probe? No why? It didn't have insulation on before.

 

I think the sensor wire may be a bit faulty. Perhaps I damaged it knocking something. What I don't know is if the tank is actually at 62.6 degrees or not but if the temp probe is faulty and says the temp is 62 degrees when its only say 30 degrees it won't trigger thr ASHP to heat the water... guess I will find out when we have a shower later.

 

It was on my radar to get it serviced anyway we haven't had it serviced for 2 years...

[canalsiderenovation]

2 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

ASHP temp sensor is what you have in you hand. It works with ASHP controller to tell ASHP to heat the cylinder.

 

The immersion has its own thermostat under the white cover, it also has a safety thermal cut out, to stop the cylinder boiling if the immersion thermostat fails.

 

If you are heating via immersion the cylinder will heat to whatever the immersion thermostat is set at. It will ignore any the ASHP says.

 

Mine is set to max, so it heats to around 73 degs with enough excess solar.

 

Yes that is set to just over 50 degrees (under that white cover I set the temp myself). That's why I'm confused the screen says 62.6 which must be wrong. Sounds like the ASHP temp sensor is wrong!

[BotusBuild]

The immersion temp sensor is likely not the most accurate thing on the planet (think old style room thermostat bimetallic). Setting at 50C, it may easily get to 55C+ before it triggers, then it still heats for a little longer. 

 

Regarding the piece of insulation, even if it wasn't there before add something to do as explained above but also it helps a little to keep the lead/sensor in place.

[JamesPa]

16 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

Push insulation in after the probe? No why? It didn't have insulation on before.

Because otherwise the probe could easily be sitting in air in the middle of the sensor pocket and the air temperature is likely to be cooler than the water temperature if not somehow isolated from the outside.

 

 

14 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

Yes that is set to just over 50 degrees (under that white cover I set the temp myself). That's why I'm confused the screen says 62.6 which must be wrong. Sounds like the ASHP temp sensor is wrong!

Ok that does suggest another problem.  Have you got a thermometer so you can compare actual coming out of tap and displayed temperature?  If actual is higher than displayed then the insulation may well be the fix.  If actual is substantially lower than displayed then probably you have indeed damaged the sensor.  Btw I agree also with  @botusbuild who cross-posted.  The ashp temp sensor should be way more accurate than the immersion thermostat.

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 18:02 by JamesPa

[ProDave]

To be clear, when you push the probe back in the water temperature is NOT rising rapidly.

 

That sensor reads the temperature and uses that reading to control it when the ASHP is doing the heating.

 

The water is already at whatever temperature it is, it is just without the probe in, it is not being read.  So the rapid rise when you put the probe in is the readout just catching up, not the water heating rapidly.

 

As you have a solar PV diverter the hot water will likely have been heated a lot hotter than what the ASHP does, just to use up surplus solar PV.  It will stop doing that when the immersion heater thermostat says so.

 

So just put the probe back and relax, everything is working normally.

[canalsiderenovation]

12 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

Regarding the piece of insulation, even if it wasn't there before add something to do as explained above but also it helps a little to keep the lead/sensor in place.

 

So stick the probe in, put some insulation inside and then the pipe on? Like this

 

 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So just put the probe back and relax, everything is working normally.

Reading this thread I would agree. You can check the probe with a cup of boiling water, allowed to cool for a few minutes and a kitchen thermometer it looks to be a DS18B20 or some such and to be on the safe side put the kitchen thermometer and the probe under the cup (not in the water). If the ASHP reads the same (roughly) as the kitchen thermometer under the cup then all is well and you can crack that bottle of Merlot you have been looking forward to all day.

[canalsiderenovation]

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

The water is already at whatever temperature it is, it is just without the probe in, it is not being read.  So the rapid rise when you put the probe in is the readout just catching up, not the water heating rapidly.

 

I realise that now,  my confusion is it's well over the temp it should be and even if our solar would have diverted lots our immersion would have said no stop at just over 50 degrees as that is what our stat is set at on the immersion.

 

12 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It will stop doing that when the immersion heater thermostat says so.

 

[canalsiderenovation]

Quick question should the black needle be above the red? I'm sure i read it should be.

 

How do I adjust that?