Are we being sold the wrong things?

[Iceverge]

Find the most idiotic person you

know. 

 

Bring them to your house, get them good and drunk and let them loose.

 

If they fail to operate any part of the house then it's too complex.

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

5 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Find the most idiotic person you

know. 

 

Bring them to your house, get them good and drunk and let them loose.

 

If they fail to operate any part of the house then it's too complex.

What if the house is autonomous - IE runs itself? Then the human interface can be a normal on/off switch for the heating, MVHR, lighting etc. (naturally with a parallel app interface to allow on/off from anywhere on or off the planet.) 

[MikeSharp01]

Not 100% sure, because there might be much more complex things coming, but I think the average modern car is a phemominally complex system of systems and some people others may define as 'right plonkers' seem to manage them in getting from A-B mostly without incident. So it looks like you can make extremely sophisticated systems work for the general humanity you find about the place - perhaps this should be our aim. 

[Bramco]

20 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Provided your sensors are sending MQTT messages you don't need Node Red on a PC to subscribe

 

Mike, you don't need a PC for nodered. I have it running on a Pi Zero 2W. It does all the collection of data from the inverter, diverter, a weather site and Solcast for the solar forecast. The dashboards are also set up and accessible there.  The data is sent (MQTT) to an openenergy server on another Pi Zero which also runs MQTT. This device collects power usage data from the ASHP, the main house etc. as well as some temperatures from the UFH.

 

All of this is running without any data going to a 'cloud'.   I haven't checked but from your description, your data is going to a 3rd party cloud. Having said that, I'm worried but not too worried about all these cloud based systems, like Tado thermostats etc.  Who realistically would be interested in my data, they'd have to be pretty sad (as sad as I am!) to be watching real-time what the diverter has diverted today.

 

21 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Just tried to read the instructions for node red dashboard and find it as baffling as node red itself. Way too difficult for a normal person to understand.

 

Agreed John - I just searched around for dashboards that had been shared publicly and tweeked them.  I guess I should have a 'credit to ....' link at the bottom of each of them.

[Bramco]

1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said:

but I think the average modern car is a phemominally complex system of systems and some people others may define as 'right plonkers' seem to manage them in getting from A-B mostly without incident. So it looks like you can make extremely sophisticated systems work for the general humanity you find about the place - perhaps this should be our aim

 

But when you talk to people about their phenomenally complex cars, they all say that they turn off as much of the 'intelligence' as possible, e.g. lane assist and wish they had a STFU button (Shut the F up). All they want to do is get from A to B as simply as possible and all the 'smartness' simply irritates. 

[MikeSharp01]

9 hours ago, Bramco said:

Mike, you don't need a PC for nodered. I have it running on a Pi Zero 2W.

No I agree, mine runs on a PI 5. Yes we are using a hive cloud mainly because I have access via work but I can encrypt anything I want. My goal in using the phone is to show people how simple it can be but it has all the down sides of every other system of systems on the planet.

 

9 hours ago, Bramco said:

But when you talk to people about their phenomenally complex cars, they all say that they turn off as much of the 'intelligence' as possible, e.g. lane assist and wish they had a STFU button (Shut the F up).

They do, but that doesn't stop them being complex in all other respects and most people don't know what those respects are.

[Roger440]

12 hours ago, Bramco said:

 

But when you talk to people about their phenomenally complex cars, they all say that they turn off as much of the 'intelligence' as possible, e.g. lane assist and wish they had a STFU button (Shut the F up). All they want to do is get from A to B as simply as possible and all the 'smartness' simply irritates. 

 

Up until about 10 years ago, car manufacturers were extremely good at complex but reliable electronics.

 

Sadly, of late, they have gone the same way as everyone else. Half baked, incomplete and untested product released onto the market. 

 

My newest car is 2016 (corsa) which is a releatively old platform. There is not a chance id buy something newer, certainly not whilst owning it and being responsible for anything on it.

[Roger440]

14 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Not 100% sure, because there might be much more complex things coming, but I think the average modern car is a phemominally complex system of systems and some people others may define as 'right plonkers' seem to manage them in getting from A-B mostly without incident. So it looks like you can make extremely sophisticated systems work for the general humanity you find about the place - perhaps this should be our aim. 

 

Im sure there are much more complex things coming. But the real life problem will just get worse. Ie, while they work, great, when they stop or break, no one can be found who can sort it out.

 

Cars, as you mention them, are a great case in point. The level of sophistication is such, that the people capable of fixing them is of a much higher level than the industry has. So employ better peole i here you say? Great, but why would people smart enough to solve the problems want to work in a nasty, cold, draughty workshop, in what, in most cases is a hostile target driven work environment.

 

Answer, they are not.

 

Dealerships are full of cars no one can fix. Nor can the manufacturer. Its notable that the stuff that cant be fixed is always electronics based.

 

All highly frustrating. They very last thing i will do is bring all that needless crap into my home. Ill admit, i simply cannot fathom why anyone would do so, with all the challenges and costs it will bring.

 

 

[Mike]

20 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Find the most idiotic person you know.... ...If they fail to operate any part of the house then it's too complex.

14 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

What if the house is autonomous - IE runs itself? Then the human interface can be a normal on/off switch for the heating, MVHR, lighting etc.

I think that either of these approaches is good - and why I'm trying to cover both with my 2-tier UFCH controls. It's the stuff that falls in the middle where it gets difficult.

[Gus Potter]

Hi all.

 

Firstly,  thanks for you all for taking the time to write about this. I know many of these posts take a lot of time to write.

 

I'm digesting this post. 

 

In my day job I try and introduce folk to underfloor heating, ICF, insulating house extensions / attic convertions and anything that I think can deliver a project. Some of my ideas are off the back of what folk are innovating on Build Hub.

 

I look at what you are doing on BH and say to myself..what a great source of knowledge..  how can I implement this in my SE and general design and then sign off on that under my professional indemnity insurance.

 

There are many of you that are contributing to this discussion and I try and chip in where I can to return the favour.

 

Thanks folks.

 

 

 

[BotusBuild]

On 28/03/2025 at 07:23, Bramco said:

All they want to do is get from A to B as simply as possible and all the 'smartness' simply irritates. 

Why I love driving the MGB GT, and always with a smile on my face, which cannot be said of my modern daily drivers (apart from the Saab 93 I used to own)

Edited March 29 by BotusBuild

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, BotusBuild said:

Why I love driving the MGB GT, and always with a smile on my face, which cannot be said of my modern daily drivers (apart from the Saab 93 I used to own)

Get yourself a BMW era Mini Cooper S, like driving a roller skate - fast enough to be fun, especially in 'SPORT' mode, looks great when clean, mostly comfortable - give run flat tyres a miss, and mine has 200K miles now - still smiling.

[BotusBuild]

9 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

BMW era Mini Cooper S

Far too modern for me 😁. And I have a "thing" about BMW (long story)

[BotusBuild]

Our current product of  interest is LED downlights - colour, wattage, dimmable, tilt angle, diameter,  replaceable bulbs, opening size,  module or direct wiring. 

 

Who knows if some of the manufacturers will be around in 5 years when no doubt one or more will need replacing, and the thought of having different looking downlights in the same area just leaves me cold

[Roger440]

3 hours ago, BotusBuild said:

Our current product of  interest is LED downlights - colour, wattage, dimmable, tilt angle, diameter,  replaceable bulbs, opening size,  module or direct wiring. 

 

Who knows if some of the manufacturers will be around in 5 years when no doubt one or more will need replacing, and the thought of having different looking downlights in the same area just leaves me cold

 

Buy lots of spares. LED lights seem to have quite short lifespans.

 

Even if who you bought it from is in business, most of the manufacturers are just buying stuff from china, if they stop making it, you wont be getting it.

 

 

[BotusBuild]

1 minute ago, Roger440 said:

Buy lots of spares.

That's the plan 🙂  Probably go for 10-20% spares of whatever we fit. 

[SteamyTea]

5 hours ago, Roger440 said:

LED lights seem to have quite short lifespans.

Not my favourite experience. Mine are over a decade old and all still working.

The only failure was about 15 years ago, and that was the bathroom one. I think my disabled lodger bashed it with a bit of towel flicking.

 

5 hours ago, BotusBuild said:

spares of whatever we fit. 

Aren't the actual 'bulbs' or strips standard items. Some may be easier to change than others, but should all be changeable.

[BotusBuild]

On 30/03/2025 at 18:31, SteamyTea said:

On 30/03/2025 at 13:01, BotusBuild said:

spares of whatever we fit. 

Aren't the actual 'bulbs' or strips standard items.

If only 😀

Not all luminaires have bulb that can be changed without literally taking the whole thing apart and possibly even getting out your soldering iron.

PITA