Leaking roof

[WalterB]

We have a 1970s built smallish four bedroom detached house on an estate in south east England (Kent, just outside the M25). The house has with a pitched roof. I am advised that the pitch on the roof is quite low but it is not noticeably lower than other houses on the estate. Previous owners put four vents in the roof a couple of feet from the edge of the roof, two on each side of the house. Last winter (2023/2024) we started having leaks into three bedroom ceilings. Each leak is in the approximate vicinity of a vent in the roof. I am advised that it is unlikely that three of the four vents will have failed at about the same time and be letting water in.

 

Last summer a builder replaced the felt beneath the first couple of rows of tiles on each side of the house and reset the tiles. The gutters were cleaned at the same time.

 

As soon as we had heavy rain this autumn the leaks reoccurred in exactly the same places as previously. I’ve had a number of roofers around and they have given me a number of solutions including: installing ventilation in the loft, increasing the pitch of the roof a bit, replacing the felt overhang where the roof meets the walls and resetting the first couple of rows of tiles (again).

 

It has been pointed out to me that the cement between some of the ridge tiles has gone. This is visible from the ground. One roofer has quoted around £2,000 (including VAT) to repoint the ridge tiles.  This doesn't include scaffolding. This seems to be very high for the job.

 

So my question is: is it likely that the ridge tiles are letting water in which is running down the roof felt and coming out where the vents have been cut into the felt. If so, will repointing the ridge tiles fix the problem or do they need rebedding as well to ensure that leak can’t reoccur?

 

Does £2,000 seem reasonable price for repointing the ridge tiles?

 

I've added photos to show the location of the leaks and an internal photo of the worse leak. If you enlarge the images from the front and back you can see where the leaks are in relation to the vents. You can also see the missing mortar between the ridge tiles in the front photograph.

Edited February 7 by WalterB

[Nickfromwales]

Hi. 
 

Do you know the pitch of the roof? It’s a little difficult to tell from the pics, so could you perhaps take one of the side of the house and we can then see it better, please?

 

Looks more than adequate pitch for concrete tiles to work, I have a tiled roof much shallower than that on my rear lean-to and it’s not an issue.

 

£2k for what is really a days work sounds like it’s expensive!
 

Can be done off ladders too if they wanted, just health & safety gone mad these days.

[ETC]

1. Is it rain water and not condensation at the eaves?

2. Has the felt at the vent locations been cut properly? If not water could be getting in at those points.

3. If your going to do work to the ridge consider a dry vented ridge rather than mortar.

 

[ToughButterCup]

45 minutes ago, WalterB said:

... is it likely that the ridge tiles are letting water in which is running down the roof felt and coming out where the vents have been cut into the felt.

If so, will repointing the ridge tiles fix the problem or do they need rebedding as well to ene that leak can’t reoccur?

(and)

Does £2,000 seem reasonable price for repointing the ridge tiles?

 

 

If anyone is going onto a roof ridge, you might as well get everything done: inspect, re-bed.

 

Price too high?

 

Lets assume  good H&S practice:

 

Ancillary works £200 ( 2 * half days, set up , pack away)

Materials £100 

Scaffolding £600 ish

Day rate £200 per person ( *2) =£400

Profit element 10% £130

 

Its a little over the top for re-bedding, and probably overpriced for re-pointing... 

It's easier and might be cheaper to dry-vent the ridge

[saveasteading]

50 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

health & safety gone mad these days.

More that the roofer fancies an easy life at the client's expense?

A roofer who doesn't like heights?

Many tradespeople have become a little precious. The plumber who won't drill a hole.

 

I'd say find a roofer who quotes the whole job including access. That takes away the risks of 1. overkill, 2 you taking safety responsibility.

They really should have a few access tools of their own if that is really what they specialise in.

 

@WalterB   When you do choose a roofer, insist that they take a picture of the problem close up, before, during (with failed mortar raked out and the area prepped)  and after.

[WalterB]

"Do you know the pitch of the roof? It’s a little difficult to tell from the pics, so could you perhaps take one of the side of the house and we can then see it better, please?"

@Nickfromwales It's difficult to get good photographs from the side but attached are a couple of pictures one from each side.

Edited February 7 by WalterB

[WalterB]

@ETC 

"1. Is it rain water and not condensation at the eaves?"

Two of the three leaks are definitely associated with periods of heavy rain.
 

"2. Has the felt at the vent locations been cut properly? If not water could be getting in at those points."

I don't know if the felt has been cut properly or not. Should it be cut so that it doesn't allow the ingress of water?

Edited February 7 by WalterB

[WalterB]

38 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Ancillary works £200 ( 2 * half days, set up , pack away)

Materials £100 

Scaffolding £600 ish

Day rate £200 per person ( *2) =£400

Profit element 10% £130

So £1,430 including scaffolding. Inclusive of VAT?

[ToughButterCup]

@WalterB, I'm not an expert . Merely fairly acquainted with local prices. At a guess without VAT

[Tom]

Can you get up in the attic and have a look at the underside of the roof? 

[ETC]

[WalterB]

@Tom  "Can you get up in the attic and have a look at the underside of the roof?"

Yes. What am I looking for?

[Russell griffiths]

You need to determine if it’s rain or condensation 

go in the loft when it’s raining with a torch and sit there for half an hour and play detective. 
 

take some pics. 
 

water should not be getting under the tiles and onto the membrane in the first place. 
the tiles are your number 1 rain defence, the membrane is a secondary line of defence. 
 

I would do a bit of research first. 

[WalterB]

@Russell griffiths Thanks for the suggestion Russell. That's a good idea.

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, WalterB said:

What am I looking for?

Also generally for signs of dampness. Are any areas of timber darker, or damp or mouldy?

Feel the floor too, which is probably fibre-glass.

Do that from ridge to eaves as water can run all the way til something makes it drip.

[dave1967]

Hi

Im no expert but that's a straight forward roof but my first thoughts were your solar panels. They will have penetrated the felt and there could be broken tiles or bits missing from tiles under there. When i took my old panels of it was a right bodge underneath

[Onoff]

7 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

@WalterB, I'm not an expert . Merely fairly acquainted with local prices. At a guess without VAT

 

Unless it's cash 😉 

[WalterB]

@dave1967 "Im no expert but that's a straight forward roof but my first thoughts were your solar panels. They will have penetrated the felt and there could be broken tiles or bits missing from tiles under there. When i took my old panels of it was a right bodge underneath"

Thanks for the suggestion. But the problem was there before the solar panels were put in and there's problems on the front (north facing part of the roof) as well as the back (south facing part of the roof).

[WalterB]

@saveasteading "

Also generally for signs of dampness. Are any areas of timber darker, or damp or mouldy?

Feel the floor too, which is probably fibre-glass.

Do that from ridge to eaves as water can run all the way til something makes it drip."

 

Thanks, I'd do that.

[dave1967]

Ok

Edited February 7 by dave1967

[dave1967]

9 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

@WalterB, I'm not an expert . Merely fairly acquainted with local prices. At a guess without VAT

Not sure what you are on about. I was just thinking solar install may be an issue. Nothing to do with vat or price.

[Nickfromwales]

12 hours ago, dave1967 said:

Not sure what you are on about. I was just thinking solar install may be an issue. Nothing to do with vat or price.

He was referring to the quote breakdown  for the roofing works.

 

 

14 hours ago, WalterB said:

there's problems on the front (north facing part of the roof) as well as the back (south facing part of the roof).

Quite likely then the ridge is the common factor to both elevations? And you know it’s in disrepair.
 

Perhaps find a tame roofer who will go up on a ladder with a bucket of compo and re-bed it all in properly and go from there.

 

@Russell griffiths advice is what I’d also do but likely it’ll all point back to the ridge. 
 

Water / leaks are a PITA to find. 

[WalterB]

@Nickfromwales "Quite likely then the ridge is the common factor to both elevations? And you know it’s in disrepair. Perhaps find a tame roofer who will go up on a ladder with a bucket of compo and re-bed it all in properly and go from there."

That's my feeling: the ridge is the common factor and two of the leaks are in the same position of each side. It is disturbing though that a number of  roofers, including members of trade associations, blithely came to different conclusions and handed over quotes for thousands of pounds without even considering the ridge.

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, WalterB said:

@Nickfromwales "Quite likely then the ridge is the common factor to both elevations? And you know it’s in disrepair. Perhaps find a tame roofer who will go up on a ladder with a bucket of compo and re-bed it all in properly and go from there."

That's my feeling: the ridge is the common factor and two of the leaks are in the same position of each side. It is disturbing though that a number of  roofers, including members of trade associations, blithely came to different conclusions and handed over quotes for thousands of pounds without even considering the ridge.

Yup, there's a sea of assholes who survive on people just handing over the money. 

 

I think you need to eliminate the ridge, as it needs doing anyway, and then review once that has been completed.

[WalterB]

@Nickfromwales "Yup, there's a sea of assholes who survive on people just handing over the money. I think you need to eliminate the ridge, as it needs doing anyway, and then review once that has been completed." 

I think that that is good advice, Nick. Thanks.