Can I get wood structurally graded to recycle on new build

[Pendicle]

So we have now demolished a self built house built in 1960, we have saved all the floor and roof rafters and would like to use in the roof of the new build. Is there a way to get them tested/graded so we can see if they meet current structural requirements. Visually they are in great condition. We are in Glasgow. Our structural engineer left the company we are working with and now have a young graduate working on our project and not keen on our recycling ideas. We want to recycle because its the right thing to do and looks great quality wood and a waste not to reuse and it may save us money although that is not necessarily the main driving factor. We basically hand demolished the house ourselves and removed every nail, I intend to use the bricks in gabions in the garden and to create paths. We aimed to put very little in landfill.

[MikeSharp01]

I believe you can, I am sure I saw it done on one of the TV build programmes (Grand Designs or Building the Dream) but it won't be cheap.

[Beau]

No use to you but our BCO (now retired) was qualified to grade wood so there are people out there. 

[BadgerBodger]

Yes. Not sure if this is permitted but we got quotes from Hutton and Rostron for our barn roof for just this. Unable to comment on how god they are as we decided against it as we are taking a “professional judgement” on the suitability of proposed changes to loading. As it was significantly cheaper… 

[Russell griffiths]

Can you not use them to build a garage or something else. 

[saveasteading]

Great idea to reuse it. Its quite likely better than at the local BM anyway.

Photos of it?

 

Most timber is visually graded, from the closeness of rhe growth rings and the amount of knots.

So you need help from your BM (agree to buy everything else from them) or an SE.

OR you could design as if it as C16 timber and be on the safe side.

 

 

[G and J]

We are about to demolish a 1920s bungalow, and the roof timbers look fantastic.  (Now do I subconsciously do a visual wood grading without realising, I wonder?).

 

My man cave at the bottom of the garden will be built from these and other timbers from the bungalow, but that will be outside our warranty and is not subject to building regs, partly as it will be build after we’ve completed.  
 

I took the view that the bunfight that would ensue if anything went awry would be bad enough with insurers and all, without adding in a get out of jail card for them of me reusing.  
 

What we can’t use ourselves we are gumtreeing.  Not quite as satisfying but still reuse.

 

Perhaps we should start a club, Self Builders Against Landfill!

[sgt_woulds]

You can certainly re-use the rafters for internal partitioning if the walls are not structural.  This is what I've done.  Good on you for making the effort 🙂

 

If the timber is pre-1980's it will undoubtedly be a better grade than any modern timber - although you do have to be careful with softwood timbers from the 50-s to the 60's as there was a shortage of materials after the war and a lot of builders, (from surveying experience, particularly in the Cambridge area for some reason) used whatever they could get, (or made it 'stretch').

 

There are websites that tell you how to visually stress-grade timber (based on flaws, knots etc), provided the species is known, and you could assume a fairly low-to-mid-strength species of softwood.

(Unless you've got something really exotic it's quite likely to be Douglas Fir - sometimes the giveaway would be weeping gum pockets, and you may find dried residues)

 

The Building Inspector ought to have some idea of that already, and - if you seem competent - they should accept your demonstration.  

 

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, sgt_woulds said:

softwood timbers from the 50-s to the 60's

Good point. A UK Power guy dated a pole to the late 1940s based on having a wide grain and lots of knots...ie a British fir tree that grew rapidly, and was all there was.

Even now you can buy Highlands timber that is C16 or ungraded, but not C24.

[SteamyTea]

4 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Even now you can buy Highlands timber that is C16 or ungraded, but not C24.

That may just be the economics of production and supply.  If the main timber needed locally is C16 and ungraded, then it is better to concentrate on producing that, then let others produce the C24, which may be used more local to the production point.

In economics, this is known as Division of Labour.

[saveasteading]

22 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

may just be the economics of production and supply

It is because the trees grow very quickly in the climate, unlike cold places where the growth rings are closer together ( eg Finland, Canada, and previously Russia). Also i was informed by a Finnish timber merchant manager that their flat land results in straightness and strength.

[sgt_woulds]

"Also i was informed by a Finnish timber merchant manager that their flat land results in straightness and strength."

 

But the slow growth in Finland, (all Scandewegian countries) is actually a problem now.  Although they plant trees to replace the forests they cut down, it takes so long for the new trees to grow and demand is so high that they are deforesting virgin woodland at an alarming rate.  The new trees can't capture and store carbon at the same rate as mature lichen forests (which take about 1000 years to reach peak capture and storage).

 

Finland's timber sector is now a net producer of Carbon Dioxide and other countries are following similar paths, (e.g. it is estimated that all of Swedens unprotected old growth forests will have been logged within the next 50 years.  The average age of trees in all the regions will be less than 100 years old.

 

Couple this with the human rights violations of the Indigenous Sámi people - I would argue that timber from these areas, (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark) is just as bad for the planet as hardwood clearcutting in tropical forests, or the Redwood logging devastation in America.

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:09 by sgt_woulds

[SteamyTea]

50 minutes ago, sgt_woulds said:

Also i was informed by a Finnish timber merchant manager that their flat land results in straightness and strength

Are the trees grown there a different cultiva (think that is the term for a small genetic differences).

The reason that trees don't grow well on The Lizard Peninsula, is that it is too windy, so only short and twisted specimens down there (bit like the people).

[saveasteading]

19 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

a different cultiva

Presumably all natural forests have changed genetically to suit the circumstances.

Then they replant as monoculture with something faster growing and alien.

 

Commercial forests are not generally attractive to be in for human leisure, and are deserts of needles and darkness on the ground. But I still favour timber.

We must wish @Pendiclewell in reusing the salvaged timber.

I think I can tell C24 from C16 by sight. Especially as C24 appears to be  more wide grained than in the past.

 

[ToughButterCup]

The hassle involved won't be worth it.

Keep it carefully by all means, but even that involves effort - and processing : racking to keep it straight, dryish and algae free: and worst of all - space - . Not to mention taking screws and nails out of it carefully enough. And bet ya £50 you'll get so fed up of that process you'll use an angle-grinder .  I did. I've lost count of the blunted cross-cut saw blades caused by haste of the day the wood was rescued and stored. Well, OK, about 5 blades.

 

We've kept our left-overs in store : Siberian Larch 3 by 4, C20 and C16 - 2 by whatevers, 4 by 4s . Made some racking out of 'surplus' scaffolding, sheeted it carefully - employed a tame teenager to turn it once a year.

Now 8 years on - SWMBO is smiling sweetly and asking when 'all-that-stuff-down-there' (the wood store) is going? Not be long now before the smile disappears. 

Storm warning. She needs the space for her garden.

 

One key consideration is the sizes you will need - 2 by 6 and 2 by 1 for the roof, - dunno about you, but I've almost always got too little of exactly what I need - and what I have is wet, algaed and got a few screws in which I didn't see the first time round. Bang goes another blade.

 

Top man. Go for it. I'm right behind you. Keep it. Makes me feel scorched by the heat of my own worthiness. And anyway,  I can guilt-trip SWMBO for a couple more years. Easy.

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

hassle involved won't be worth it.

There is usually reclaimed timber on Marketplace, but barely cheaper than new. Perhaps it sells to people who just assume it's a bargain.

[SteamyTea]

If the thought of a Cambridge University course does not horrify you, take a look at this.

 

https://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/wood/intro.php

[sgt_woulds]

It's a reasonable primer but it's a shame that it doesn't cover engineered wood as this will probably have far more bearing going forward

 

If we are to meet the volumes required for construction with the poor quality wood available now - and with an eye to protecting what little old-growth natural forest that is left - then we will probably need to rely on manufactured timber products to provide structural elements. 

 

LVL production grades the wood during peeling and uses it more efficiently in the finished product with consistent results.  Depending upon the manufacturer, 100% of the tree is used as any waste bark etc can be burned in a CHP to help power the production process.  It does however require better storage than sawn timber as it is not so resistant to wetting and drying cycles.

 

It makes better use of fast-growing plantation wood which is what the world needs to rely on now, rather than clear-cutting and converting the prehistoric forest of the world. 

 

This will unfortunately remain a more expensive option until supply and demand curves meet in the middle.  

 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, sgt_woulds said:

the poor quality wood available now

Is it really poor quality, or just to a different, but adequate, specification.

 

I seem to remember that we don't build cars like we used to. Thank goodness. 

[sgt_woulds]

As far as saving and storing reclaimed timber - yes it's not always easy or convenient and you do need to consider what the end use will be.

 

Mine has been denailed and is stored outside and uncovered; they are nearly 7 metres long so I didn't have much choice! 

 

They do look grotty, but when I cut through the moisture has only penetrated a few mm and the heartwood is perfectly sound.  I roughly cut them to size when needed and leave them to dry out indoors for a while, then a quick run-over with a heavy-duty sander or, (old expendable) planer makes them like new. 

 

These were all saved for internal stud work so don't need to be 100% die straight or dimensionally accurate, (still better than the typical wavy wet matchsticks you can pick up at your local DIY store).  Getting them ready for use takes slightly longer and requires a bit more care in selection but is very satisfying if you can do it on a DIY basis at your own pace.

 

If I intended them for structural purposes, (which they would be ideally suited too - well above C24 grade) then my storage requirements would change.