artificial intelligence New Members, Buildhub - information overload and AI

[ToughButterCup]

Self building and house renovation is a challenging process. Its disruptive, messy, expensive, upsetting, uplifting, funny, infuriating - but not necessarily in that order. This website is a fantastic resource - full of information, images,  reassurance,  leg-pulling, constructive criticism , technical advice  --- and words. 

 

Yes - words: millions of them.   

Millions of words  some relevant, others not. Some elegantly put, others tumble from upset lips into type and onto the screen. The Submit Topic  button pressed in haste. Simply put, a bit like Handle's criticism of one of Mozart's work, there are too many words here. Thats why it takes a good deal of time and effort to 'get-in-to-Buildhub'.

 

There's a new information handling tool on the block. AI. Artificial Intelligence. Duno about you, but  I need no excuse to try out a new tool, so here's a quick introduction to one (of many).

 

The end in mind is to help new members 'get-in-to-Buildhub' by using a publicly available information handling  tool called NotebookLM . I have deliberately not linked to it because I am sure there are other competing AIs that do the same job. I just haven't found them yet. And if you want to use it, you can search for it in the normal way. You may not like the company that makes it - to me that doesn't matter: what does matter though is for New Members (and others) to use a tool to make their visit to Buildhub as productive as possible.

 

The key thing is to promote the idea that AI can help New Members feel less overwhelmed by the Information Handling task posed by self-building.

 

Problem Statement

Your new to BH and you want to find out about Natural England's guidance about nutrient pollution  (other threads are available 😑) And you bump into @Bob the builder's thread on the subject  . It's six pages long - and you haven't got time to read it.

 

Using NotebookLM

 

Copy and paste the url (weblink , hyperlink) into NotebookLM

Press Go>

 

and this happens

 

• The text of the entire thread is summarised
• One button allows you to create a briefing document that summarise the thread AND LINKED DOCUMENTS
• The tool will create an audio version of the same discussion played in the format of a Podcast - it takes a minute or two, but you can put your earbuds in and listen to the article if you want

There's so much more to say about AI and Buildhub.  This post is already too long.

 

I'm merely introducing it as a POTENTIAL tool for members to use - or not as they see fit. Yes, it'll make mistakes. Yes, we all need to be cautious about the output. 

I would love people who use AI in their normal workflow to contribute to this thread if they have time. Please.

Anything that makes Buildhub easier to use. 

Ian

[Bramco]

Given the huge resource here - would it be possible to integrate Notebook LM or another AI tool into the search results, in such a way that as well as the list of search results, an AI summary is given. This would be extremely helpful.  

 

I'm thinking something like the paragraph you get above the list of reviews on Amazon - the AI there gives a good summary of what the reviews say.

[ToughButterCup]

18 minutes ago, Bramco said:

Given the huge resource here - would it be possible to integrate Notebook LM or another AI tool into the search results, in such a way that as well as the list of search results, an AI summary is given. This would be extremely helpful.  ...

 

It may be, but not without incurring significant cost on the BH staff - all of whom work for nothing.

 

For BH users, the 'new' workflow is not onerous and would be something like 

•  identify key threads :
• identify key external documents
• copy and paste those links and links to those documents into NotebookLM
• Let it do it's stuff
• Listen to the output 
• Read the output
• Check it.
• re-plan your information requirements

In other words the process is iterative - drilling as deeply or widely as you require

 

We can all try downloading a copy of NotebookLM and playing with it. I'm finding it hard to get out and do some work on the house.

[JohnMo]

The only issue I have with AI, you get the good stuff and the rubbish, all given you, youras if it's all correct. The not so rigorous reader (not doing correct due diligence) could easily go off on a tangent and do exactly the wrong thing.

 

Sometimes it's just easier, less time consuming, and you get the correct information first time, to just read the rules and regulations directly.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

... all given you, you as if it's all correct. ..

 

Indeed blind trust and the Internet are not well matched partners John.   Same rules for AI as for reading Buildhub, then ...... ( your posts excepted tho'. )

Edited January 20 by ToughButterCup

[Adrian Walker]

I have just pointed "notebooklm" to BH and it works OK, but it gives more of a summary, but with links to the sources.

[SteamyTea]

I have just sold my 600bn in shares, going to give the lot to Deepseek to help speed up 'model collapse'.

[Pocster]

53 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I have just sold my 600bn in shares, going to give the lot to Deepseek to help speed up 'model collapse'.

Invest in pocsterAI ; it’s the best . Not a (expletive deleted)ing clue , doesn’t ‘lie’ just doesn’t get the facts ; won’t kill humanity.

Be on Dragons Den soon

 

for Deborah meads questions 

 

yr 1 : profit (expletive deleted) all

yr 2: profit 12k

yr 3: profit 100 billion 

 

10% of my BS company for 10 million 

[Alan Ambrose]

You read the article this morning about the French AI wasping on about 'cows eggs'? Also this:

 

29 Hilariously Wrong Answers That Prove Google’s AI Overview Is A Joke | Bored Panda

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

39 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

cows eggs

I had to clean up a dog's egg at work the other day.

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

14 hours ago, Adrian Walker said:

I have just pointed "notebooklm" to BH and it works OK, but it gives more of a summary, but with links to the sources. ...

 

Interesting @Adrian Walker. Have you clicked on the Audio preview ? Blew my mind when I did that ---- it takes a bit of processing . Worth the wait.

 

I'm going to have a bash at getting DeepSeek and NotebookLm to do some linear programming today. I have a classic for it to solve

• A ten meter long footpath to build this week
• Some York stone paving
• But not enough stone to pave the whole of it in the traditional way (close-jointed)
• I know the area of paving available
• I know the size of each pavier : no 2 are exactly the same size
• Assume a 10mm joint
• Or no joint at all ( grass in the gaps)

The questions

• Using all the paviers , pave the maximum area with the minimum number of cuts 
• Cover the whole 10 meters of the  path with all the paviers : what is the gap between each pavier
• Pave the maximum area with minimum cuts and 10mm joints.
• And just to spite Zuckerberg  ---  Do it all again with a 5mm joint

And then , of course dry-lay the answers (see your comment about wrong answers above Adrian)

 

Its a journey this SelfBuild stuff innit.

Edited January 29 by ToughButterCup

[Gus Potter]

Hi all.

 

I've had a bit of a rake about on BH and read around some of the great stuff you have been posting about AI and how that may fit into the self build market, conversion of farm buildings to domestic and building extensions.

 

For me I started out some 40 years ago in construction before we had computers and the internet. Quotations were typed out and sent by post!

 

To provide a bit of context I now work for myself as an SE and Architectural Designer. Prior to that I worked and trained mostly with a cold formed shed steel company that sold a lot of buildings in Australia and the UK. They were the biggest supplier (of CF sheds, some we turned into houses etc) by a long way in the UK. My role there was to develop some the engineering calcs, do a bit of R & D and design raft slabs etc. But the funny thing was that it was almost a software company that sold steel sheds via franchises and this is done via the internet.. a web site.

 

To summarise.. AI I think is just a natural progression that needs to be used as a tool like any other. But I'm struggling to work out where to go next!

 

At the moment my bread and butter income comes from designing extensions, loft conversions, knocking a lot of holes in walls to form open plan spaces. The other part of my portfolio is what I call "whacky and challenging stuff" for want of a better word.  This could be anything from an interesting self build, farm building conversion to the odd bit of dispute work say against the NHBC.

 

Now technology we know moves fast and I've been trying to get my head around whether AI is a threat to my income stream say over the next ten to fifteen years.. and then I'll probably hang up my boots.

 

Here is a link to the RIBA where they talk about this:

 

https://www.architecture.com/knowledge-and-resources/knowledge-landing-page/no-turning-back-41-of-architects-now-using-ai?srsltid=AfmBOoqSGRmmzU3V9DcDtLc4hEeimXg3_kxSkilpP1ux1xJ6xEoRjH8O

 

To save anyone but the very keen reading . In summary there are a lot of mixed opinions and some Architects are dabbling with AI. There is some interesting points on design responsiblity, copywrite, who is training the model and providing the data that AI learns from? There is an element of justifiable nerviousness.

 

Another rough quote I saw elsewhere was, AI is not a direct threat to say the Architect / SE in design experience terms but it could make you much less competetive if you don't use it.. like we use excel or word.. which is a strategic business threat. If you go bust then..

 

Personally I know I have to get my head around this in some form or another if I want to still be in business in say 5 or 10 years time... but where do I focus my learning effort. At the moment I see this panning out as having access to better (cheeper) SE visualisation and Architectural rendering of finishes.

 

This could maybe extended to show how say a traditional cut timber roof works to act as an aid to the contractor when pricing. Funnily I use a pretty high end structural steel and timber detailing package that does all the 3D stuff and produces the fabrication drawings anyway. But it is an SE package and does not do Architectural renders for example. Often I'll add some screenshots to a complicated 2D SE design drawing  so folk can see how it fits together. But could AI know just how to pitch and angle a screenshot to capture all the tricky bits that a builder needs to know?

 

I just can't see AI at the moment helping me design a padstone at the end of a beam on an 120 year old stone structure, with 5.0 metre bifolds under with some lateral stability problems. Then you have the temporary works.. propping and so on.. all to be cost effective. But where is can help a lot is in basic visualisation if it is cheep!

 

As a one man band my unique selling point is my experience and the fact that I wear two hats, SE and Architectural designer. This make me competetive financially (one stop shop) as I am able to "see the whole design picture", and this is attractive to some Clients.. but not all! Now scale that up a bit to say a small Architectural practice. Again they have a USP but I think it will be the big outfits that may, as always wil use this first.. which at the moment puts it out of reach of the self builder.

 

I'm tying my ownself in knots here as am just learning!

 

I think AI will be at first low cost but then the software fees will rack up.. and this has to get passed on in some form or another.

 

The question is.. Will it make self building / extending more affordable?

 

Personally I hope that there will always be a need for a designer like me, small and in a niece market. But one hard law of business.. how much do you cost! In ten years time someone may call me an "Artisan Designer".. I hope!

 

Maybe a way of explaining my raw thinking is to refer to Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations; circa 1776 where he explains the division of labour. AI is in some ways doing this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Not having dabbled with AI at all I may be wrong in my thinking.

I have been told it is pretty good at interpreting legal 'stuff', so maybe a first port of call is to get it to translate/interpret rules and regulations.

If nothing else, it would be a good way of checking how good it is.

 

Only heard snippets of this, but the bit about Model Collapse was interning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001npph

[sgt_woulds]

Unfortunately, part of my compliance role is to conduct due diligence for our timber supply to conform with the UK Timber Regulations.

 

All of the timber used for our products is sourced in Poland from the state forestry within 150 miles of our mills, so the supply chains are fairly clear and simple, but I do know that there is some conflict timber coming into the country via Belarus, and there are possibilities for corruption as anywhere.

 

I tried using Bing Copilot to research corruption and illegality linked to the timber trade for our specific sources and supply chain routes.

 

Pont blank, the results it gave back were total BS.  It stated unequivocally that seven of our regular hauliers were directly linked to the transport of illegal timber, but unfortunately, unlike the example above it didn't provide any links for me to check it's sources, which is a vital part of my due diligence.

 

I wasted about 3 hours trying to find evidence using google searches and brought up nothing.  

 

I questioned Copilot again referencing its earlier answers and asking for links to sources.  After the seventh or eighth rephrased query it finally admitted that it had no information to corroborate its earlier claims.  An 'apology for confusion' popped up saying that this Copilot session was to be 'reviewed'

 

All the other searches then started to return results such as below, but no more pop-up apologies:

 

 

 

 

I won't be trusting AI for my research in the future - current evidence is that it is no more truthful, honest, or informed than the average politician.

 

I recently received an e-mail from Inland Revenue boasting that it's new AI customer service gave correct answers 80% of the time in a trial with 1000 people and is now to be rolled out to a capacity of 15,000 real customers.  This means that up to 3000 people each year will get the wrong advice regarding their TAX affairs.

 

Superb.

 

Edited February 19 by sgt_woulds

[ToughButterCup]

11 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

...

 

To summarise.. AI I think is just a natural progression that needs to be used as a tool like any other. But I'm struggling to work out where to go next!

...

 

Personally I know I have to get my head around this in some form or another if I want to still be in business in say 5 or 10 years time... but where do I focus my learning effort.

...

 

Here's a series of ideas to help ..... 

• Find out what your Trade / Professional body is doing to support your sector
• Search for AIs specific to your sector / interest
• Search for online MOOCs about AI (Massive Open Online Courses) - many are free heres a set of examples
• Choose an AI (any one) . Download a Cheat Sheet for its favoured prompts :  use them
• Open two AIs. Ask one a question. Paste its answer into the next AI ( Eg. Chat GPT > (Whats the best way to insulate a house foundation)  < Answer>  Paste that into DeepSeek)
• AI is fundamentally iterative: learn how to ask questions that illicit an appropriately deep response . And then>
• Focus on part of that answer and ask a further question about  about a small section of the original answer  (Is EPS 300 sufficiently thick to achieve an U value of 0.4  > What results would be achieved by using EPS 200 ?)
• The fundamental rule is Drill Down into the answers
• And the most important of all                                             Play with them  for a while
•   And then remember your 'O' Level maths  - check and re-check the answers  ( in modern parlance Triangulate the answers) 

 

 

[Pocster]

Chatgpt etc rubbish in , rubbish out .

They are naturally filtered by what they are fed ( by intent or otherwise ) . Tiananmen square on any Chinese AI gives a questionable response .

How long before Russian AI spins ‘ Russia was invaded ‘ or probably worse TrumpAI - (expletive deleted) me - imagine the garbage that will spill .

 

Sorry , went off topic ! . I Asked ChatGPT if taking over 10 years to do a self build was slow . Its response was it is “ on the long side “ , then asked me why it took so long !

I told it where to go then !

[SteamyTea]

20 minutes ago, Pocster said:

How long before Russian AI spins ‘ Russia was invaded ‘

Too late on that one.

[Pocster]

18 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Too late on that one.

Oh don't doubt it!. 

[ToughButterCup]

For example...

[Gus Potter]

Thanks for all the useful comments folks.. will mull it all over... lots to learn!

[ToughButterCup]

Just found this one for DeepSeek