Visti Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I've a dilemma which I am hoping to get some independent advice on, particularly from those of you with MBC builds! MBC have provided us an option to lay the underfloor piping and Trish has supplied us with significant detail on the specifications (16mm Pex-Al-Pex, 100mm spacing, contraflow layout etc...). Layed out on top of EPS (seperatly supplied by us!). All for a reasonable price (so we think). When we asked a heating system supplier to remove the equivalent from their quote we got a lot of warnings: - spacing may be too wide - does the pipe have an oxygen barrier (does Pex-Al-Pex?) - are they using cheap DIY push fit couplers and bends - unnecessary pumps, valves or actuators This has given us pause as I don't think I can answer any of these even after several hours of research. I'm tempted just to DIY the lot, but it then starts to run into the design and specific of DHW and heating systems which I've no clue where to start. Any advice or pointers to articles or posts that'll give me a decent start?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 MBC installed my UFH pipework, but only the pipe, no manifolds etc. They actually used the UFH pipe from Earth Save Products (it was sent to site by them). Not cheap, and well regarded. No couplers, all full runs. No complaints here. They've done (probably) hundreds of installs. Sounds to me as though your heating supplier is just trying to bag the entire sale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) We did a diy raft slab so can't comment on MBC, but I have only read positive comments. Pex-al-pex does have a air barrier. There is not a correct pipe spacing, all depends on each job but 200mm is normal. My opinion is under no circumstance have a join of underfloor heating pipe in the slab, you can buy pipes in 500m coils if needed!! Laying ufh pipes for the first time is one of those jobs that seem daunting but when finished you will wonder why you worried about it! Be very cautious of complete heating/ufh suppliers.... Edited November 22, 2017 by Alexphd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 We have the MBC slab with the UFH in it - we asked to use our own pipe and not MBC supplied pipe but they put it in for us and we got a reduction in our mbc price for supplying our own pipe, they also fitted it to our designed spec for spacing and zones. We have used the German Robbens pipe and manifolds. The Robbens system is very good with pipe that has an aluminium inner so very robust. Robbens design was good and they were really on the ball. We got our UFH and MVHR from them and used a recommended installer, he is brilliant, a specialist in passiv style stuff. He has done all our UFH and MVHR and put in the gas boiler and hot water tanks and hot and cold feeds to our desired points around the house ready for our bathroom plumbers to first fix into. He specified the plumbing kit (ex mvhr/ufh) and I bought it all at best prices I could get on line so no middle man cut. All our h&c pipes are in the roof and now buried in masses of mbc pumped insulation, so we dont have roof space just insulation LOL We chose Robbens for our UFH/MVHR after having quotes from 3 others......they also do some very stylish magnetic covers in glass for the mvhr room vents much nicer than the plastic ones that are the norm and I didnt find anyone else who offered such a stylish product 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Visti said: When we asked a heating system supplier to remove the equivalent from their quote we got a lot of warnings: - spacing may be too wide - does the pipe have an oxygen barrier (does Pex-Al-Pex?) - are they using cheap DIY push fit couplers and bends - unnecessary pumps, valves or actuators - Spacing is application dependent. Insulated slab (rather than thin screed) + excellent insulation = wider spacings aren't a problem. - Can you buy UFH pipe that doesn't? Pex-Al-Pex has a barrier and is a great product. - Nope. No couplers - our loops all max out below 100m, so every loop is a single run. It may be easier and more efficient if you can have all your loops about the same length, even you you run them as a single zone. - MBC doesn't supply pumps, valves or actuators (or a manifold for that matter), so this comment is irrelevant. I used Wunda for my manifold and pump set a couple of years ago. The price was good and installation was pretty straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 The mbc pipe is very good quality based on the two other systems I have installed. It is a barrier pipe with an aluminium core. As @Barney12 states it's from Earthsave products in Wallingford. I got it myself as they are supplying all my underfloor heating parts. The pipe uncoils well using a machine and does not kink or split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Robbens is one of few companies who actually manufacturer their own pipe and is top notch. Didn't realise they also done Mvhr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Visti said: I've a dilemma which I am hoping to get some independent advice on, particularly from those of you with MBC builds! MBC have provided us an option to lay the underfloor piping and Trish has supplied us with significant detail on the specifications (16mm Pex-Al-Pex, 100mm spacing, contraflow layout etc...). Layed out on top of EPS (seperatly supplied by us!). All for a reasonable price (so we think). When we asked a heating system supplier to remove the equivalent from their quote we got a lot of warnings: - spacing may be too wide - does the pipe have an oxygen barrier (does Pex-Al-Pex?) - are they using cheap DIY push fit couplers and bends - unnecessary pumps, valves or actuators This has given us pause as I don't think I can answer any of these even after several hours of research. I'm tempted just to DIY the lot, but it then starts to run into the design and specific of DHW and heating systems which I've no clue where to start. Any advice or pointers to articles or posts that'll give me a decent start?! I'd find new heating installers as theyre causing you unnecessary worry and should have asked different questions like • what spacings • what pipe • DO they fit any valves etc and what type ....instead of just assuming the worst . Theyre just being dicks, so stick with MBC and watch how guys who do this daily get things done. . As abve, you choose the above ground stuff, and MBC are going to use pex so let them carry on. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 MBC laid my pipe and did the layouts. Just make sure about spacing. I was told by the guy in the office that they always lay at 100mm spacing, but the guys on site said they always lay 200 centers. The pipe was good quality stuff off the roll. I fitted my own manifold and pressure tested prior to concrete and also kept an eye on pressure level during the pour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visti Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Thanks for the words of insight and encouragement all! I think MBC can service this particular part of the build and it's one less thing I have to worry about. What I will need to do however is the design of my own heating and DHW system. Too many snake oils salesmen out there. Off to that sub-forum I go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, Visti said: Off to that sub-forum I go! Get comfy, there's a lot of info here. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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