How to best fix a coat-rack to a moulded internal door?

[David001]

We've bought a house in which all the doors are of the inexpensive, moulded, five-panelled, grained-appearance sort, as at the following page at Wickes:

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Geneva-White-Grained-Moulded-Cottage-Internal-Door/p/9000218647?_br_psugg_q=door

 

In one bedroom I want to attach to the back of one of these doors a coat-rack board, with just two or three coat-hooks on it, for hanging a couple of dressing-gowns, but I believe that the interior of these doors is composed of something like honeycombed cardboard.  So the challenge is to attach the board of a coat-rack securely and permanently to such a door.  I want to avoid the possibility of inappropriate fixings becoming loose over time. 

 

The front and rear surfaces of the door are firm and strong, but I don't think they are much thicker than 5mm.  The total width of the door is 1 and three-quarters of an inch.

 

Has anybody had experience of firmly attaching a coat-rack to this rather flimsy sort of door?

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

[joe90]

I would be reluctant to put a coat rack or hook on these doors, they are very flimsy in construction (tho look good)) for a single lightweight dressing gown I would use a rivet type fixing like this. The first one SM04020, not sure where you will get them but I have used them in the past 

 

https://rawlplug.co.uk/product/sm-interset/

[Jilly]

A door overhang would give the effect, tho’ not quite so stylish. 

[Russell griffiths]

You will need a toggle type fixing, pretend the door is a thin hollow wall. 

[David001]

22 hours ago, joe90 said:

https://rawlplug.co.uk/product/sm-interset/

Yes, I can see that one of these might work, if the entire length of that fixing is no longer than 30mm, and if the initial section of the shaft is narrow enough to allow the widening part of the fixture to snuggle up against the internal surface. 

Thanks.

[David001]

22 hours ago, Jilly said:

A door overhang would give the effect, tho’ not quite so stylish. 

Yes, that would be the easiest thing to do.  I've done on the same kind of door, but between the utility and pantry where the two give-away tabs which appear on the other side of the door don't offend.  The problem in bedroom case is that the bedroom in question is entered via the living-room, so two shiny aluminium tabs being visible over the door would be unfortunate.  Even if they were painted the same colour as the door, they might still be discernible. 

I wonder if I could modify such a "hanger", by cutting off the two overhanging tabs, and drilling holes through the metal that runs across the top of the door, so that screws could be inserted downwards into the door, to keep the "hanger" in place.

[David001]

22 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

You will need a toggle type fixing, pretend the door is a thin hollow wall. 

By a "toggle type fixing", do you mean what I call a butterfly screw, as in the following image?

 

The advantage of this fixing is that the two wings could be drawn hard and fast against the interior surface of the door, however given that this kind of door is filled with a kind of honeycomb made of rigid cardboard, I fear that the two wings may not be able to open.  They may not be able to force their way into the honeycomb. 

What do you think?

 

[Jilly]

A door overhang would give the effect, tho’ not quite so stylish. 

[FuerteStu]

On the 3 kids bedroom doors on the old house I fitted a nice plinth on the back of the door. 4"x 18" with no nails and a couple of thick thread wood screws to pull it tight until the glue set. 

 

On that plinth I fitted the hooks. 

 

Never had any issues at all over the years and it held lots of coats, dressing gowns, and school bags. 

[David001]

23 hours ago, FuerteStu said:

On the 3 kids bedroom doors on the old house I fitted a nice plinth on the back of the door. 4"x 18" with no nails and a couple of thick thread wood screws to pull it tight until the glue set. 

 

On that plinth I fitted the hooks. 

 

Never had any issues at all over the years and it held lots of coats, dressing gowns, and school bags. 

@FuerteStu, thanks. 

After seeing the earlier messages last night, I wondered if using adhesive might be the way forward, combined with screws, and you, tonight, have advised that this method has worked for you.

Could you show me a pic of the kind of "thick thread wood screws" you used, please?

And what kind of glue did you use?  Something as 100% certain and reliable as Araldite?  I've noticed that the adhesives like "Stick like S***" don't always produce a bond that lasts.

Thanks again.

[Onoff]

At my Dad's, before he passed, the doors etc were the original from 1960. Hardboard skin with paper / cardboard inside. Hardly anything had been changed or updated. 

 

We needed to convert the bathroom one to a sliding door. Firstly so he could manoeuvre his walker through the hall, also in case he fell against the inward opening door. That plus fit a big handle which he would quite likely hang on.

 

I Starrett cut big holes, then glued and screwed timber rounds from the other side:

 

 

Put it this way, I could hang on it:

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13 by Onoff

[Adrian Walker]

Glue is your hero

[FuerteStu]

 

23 hours ago, David001 said:

@FuerteStu, thanks. 

After seeing the earlier messages last night, I wondered if using adhesive might be the way forward, combined with screws, and you, tonight, have advised that this method has worked for you.

Could you show me a pic of the kind of "thick thread wood screws" you used, please?

And what kind of glue did you use?  Something as 100% certain and reliable as Araldite?  I've noticed that the adhesives like "Stick like S***" don't always produce a bond that lasts.

Thanks again.

 

I don't have any pictures, sorry. It was my old house. 

 

A thicker screw with thicker thread will 'bite' Better in the thin material if the door, just be careful not to over tighten. The screw is there to clamp the plinth until the glue goes off. 

 

With all glues, most of the strength is in the way it's fixed. Two surfaces rested against each other will fail. If they're clamped, the bond is stronger. 

 

 

[David001]

@Onoff, thanks for that solution.  You have made me consider that I could drill a couple of holes, pop in some wood glue, then fill the holes with dowels of a fairly wide diameter, sufficient to be able to drill a hole into their centres and screw into them.  In essence, much the same method as you used.

Thank you.

[David001]

@FuerteStu, I think that I should use your method but with some variation. 

 

I'm used to using metal rawl plugs,

so I could drill a hole at each end of the board of the coat-rack,

then place the board exactly in position on the door (using a spirit-level),

insert a bradawl through the two holes so as to mark the position of the two holes on the surface of the door,

then put the board aside and at the holes made by the bradawl drill two holes sufficiently big to be able to take the two rawl-plugs,

then squirt some wood glue into the hole, also coat the rawl plug with some wood glue,

then screwing the rawl plugs in and leave them for 48 hours to set thoroughly.

After 48 hours, place the coat-rack board in position and screw two screws of correct length through the coat-rack board to secure the rack firmly in position.

 

I formed this method after merging your suggestion with my discovery that metal rawl plugs are actually sold as "hollow-door anchors" in the USA.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G2PK7G

 

I searched B&Q for "hollow-door fixings" and found something similar but made of plastic.  But I think metal would be more secure.

https://www.diy.com/departments/plasplugs-dr-308-hollow-door-fixings-10-/5010047103089_BQ.prd

 

This should work well, shouldn't it?

[FuerteStu]

The first are designed for plasterboard and would not be effective in such a thin skinned door. 

 

The second ones from B&q are designed to be used in a hollow door. Use those. 

[Onoff]

9 hours ago, David001 said:

@Onoff, thanks for that solution.  You have made me consider that I could drill a couple of holes, pop in some wood glue, then fill the holes with dowels of a fairly wide diameter, sufficient to be able to drill a hole into their centres and screw into them.  In essence, much the same method as you used.

Thank you.

 

Those wooden inserts were something like 100mm dia. Run through the thicknesser to get the depth, so as to be flush. I just filled around the edge as you can see below then sanded and glossed the lot. I put 3 or 4 screws in from the other side and plenty of wood glue. As Dad was prone to falls the idea was he could maybe grab the rail and haul himself up. It was a rush job near "the end". We'd been on at him for years to have an accessible bathroom done let alone re-wire, decorate, etc.

 

 

[David001]

@FuerteStu, I've written to Plasplugs, advising them of my situation, and that my doors are just 34mms thick.  I'll see what they recommend.  However, just because they make plastic plugs for "hollow doors", I don't think it follows that the metal rawl-plugs for hollow doors made by the other company will not work as well, if not better. 

[David001]

@Onoff, I think you did a wonderfully caring thing for your dad. 

[FuerteStu]

27 minutes ago, David001 said:

@FuerteStu, I've written to Plasplugs, advising them of my situation, and that my doors are just 34mms thick.  I'll see what they recommend.  However, just because they make plastic plugs for "hollow doors", I don't think it follows that the metal rawl-plugs for hollow doors made by the other company will not work as well, if not better. 

The metal fixings are for plasterboard.. They are designed to grip in a minimum of 9mm, usually 12mm thick gypsum wall. Not  a 3mm widen fibre board off a door. 

 

The fixings from B&Q state that they are designed for exactly that purpose, I strongly suggest if you're going to use a fixing in the door, to use those. 

[Onoff]

Depends how keen you are but one way would be to route out a rectangular section of the door face and drop in a flush section of solid timber slightly smaller than the coat rack. You'd just make up a frame to route against and have at it. It would even take out the inner cardboard down to where you could glue the timber to the back of the opposite face with D4 or similar. Just weight it down, no screws. 

 

Similarly you could drill each vertical side at / on the centre line and height of the coat rack then knock a "broom handle" through to screw to, from one side to the other. You would have to remove / get through the inner corrugated card. Could be into hole saws with long extensions etc.

 

In both cases you'd be screwing into "real wood". Fun either way! 

[David001]

For the benefit of anyone who comes to this forum with the same question as I posted, I have now successfully used metal rawl plugs (aka metal "worms") to attach the board of a coat-rack to the back of a modern hollow-wood door.

I discovered that the veneer of the moulded door, being made of hard-pressed "dust", responds in much the same way as plasterboard does when it is drilled by a metal rawl plug.

Before screwing in the rawl-plugs I used a gauge to measure the thickness of the veneer and was surprised to find that it was 10mm, which is thick enough to accommodate a complete circle, or even two, of the rawl-plug's thread, thus ensuring a firm fitting.

 

1. mark where the rawl plugs need to be inserted.

2. drill holes to allow the end of the rawl-plug to be comfortably inserted into the holes.

3. coat the rawl plugs with a little bit of lubricating jelly.

4. screw the rawl plugs into the veneer of the door, making sure you press against the rawl plug with your full body-weight while you are turning the screw (to make sure the veneer is not pulled outwards).

5. attach felt-pads with adhesive stickers on them to the top rear and bottom rear of the coat-rack (to make up for the head of the rawl-plug which will otherwise cause the coat-rack board to "rock")

6. screw the coat-rack securely to the rawl-plugs.

7. ensure that the board of the rack is firm and unmoving (otherwise increase the thickness or number of the felt-pads on the rear surface).

8. treat the coat-rack with care, and don't lumber it with very heavy things clothes or other items.