Firsttimer Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 We are struggling to get an answer as to what screws we can use to fix the batons for our cladding. We have 100mm of external insulation. Does anyone have any advice / view ? I was planning on using these. https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/products/7-5-x-180mm-timco-multi-fix-concrete-s crew-zinc-and-yellow-00180tcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 Not quite sure how you want to set this up but have a look here: https://www.ejot.co.uk/Building-Fasteners/Products/ETICS-Anchors-/c/ETICS_ANCHORS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonner Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 I used 75/80mm concrete screws to fix battens straight to block wall. Can’t comment how it works through insulation, suggest you test on a sample area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanmenie Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 11 hours ago, Firsttimer said: We are struggling to get an answer as to what screws we can use to fix the batons for our cladding. We have 100mm of external insulation. Does anyone have any advice / view ? I was planning on using these. https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/products/7-5-x-180mm-timco-multi-fix-concrete-s crew-zinc-and-yellow-00180tcon I’m doing same but through 180mm of insulation so am using these in 280mm https://timberfixings.com/7-4-x-280mm-TX40-Blue-Power-Timber-to-Masonry-Screws-Box-of-100-p141878564 they are expensive but specially designed for the job They do shorter lengths 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Is this an ICF build? Why aren't you screwing in to the plastic webs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttimer Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 10 hours ago, Conor said: Is this an ICF build? Why aren't you screwing in to the plastic webs? Yes, it's ICF. With our blocks there's no way to visibly tell from the exterior where the webs might be and I'm not sure the web spacing inside is uniform enough to be able to measure out where they might be. I'm now wondering if we could find them with a stud finder 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 13 minutes ago, Firsttimer said: Yes, it's ICF. With our blocks there's no way to visibly tell from the exterior where the webs might be and I'm not sure the web spacing inside is uniform enough to be able to measure out where they might be. I'm now wondering if we could find them with a stud finder 🤔 What are you blocks and what is your wall build up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 40 minutes ago, Firsttimer said: , it's ICF. Surely there is a standard detail from the icf manufacturer? A 100mm screw through eps will be susceptible to bending under cladding weight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 6 minutes ago, saveasteading said: susceptible to bending Fix one of these as a test, then hook on a claw hammer and hang off it. I think it will bend. The whole cladding skin could droop. 180mm mentioned above too. ! It is just a bit of wire through eps. I was once keen to try eps structures but never did, and am out of touch now. Please post the manufacturer's detail if you find it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, Firsttimer said: Yes, it's ICF. With our blocks there's no way to visibly tell from the exterior where the webs might be and I'm not sure the web spacing inside is uniform enough to be able to measure out where they might be. I'm now wondering if we could find them with a stud finder 🤔 Look at the manufacture details, you only need to find one plastic Webb, the others will be spaced the exact distance apart that the factory made them. they haven’t moved, some icf have vertical webbs and some have horizontal. find one and it’s just a bit of measuring to find the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanmenie Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 5 hours ago, saveasteading said: Surely there is a standard detail from the icf manufacturer? A 100mm screw through eps will be susceptible to bending under cladding weight. Not with screws in the post I linked, they are designed for the job I’ve screwed through 180mm of insulation and believe me once the batten is tight to the EPS it won’t droop. I checked with the ICF manufacturer and the screws manufacturer, Theres someone else on here who’s done it with heavier cladding than mine The James Hardie VL plank is about 11kg a square meter so with battens and screws at 500mm centres plenty strong enough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 5 minutes ago, Chanmenie said: they are designed for the job OK that is interesting. Tempered steel, close fixings? I'd still like to see someone testing a 150mm projecting one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanmenie Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, saveasteading said: OK that is interesting. Tempered steel, close fixings? I'd still like to see someone testing a 150mm projecting one. Here’s the data sheet https://app.nextpim.de/Cloud/6118eacef55a4834b44c3623/a3ba70a2-990d-432c-fb8c-08d79e6bb09c/Product_data_sheet_Blue-Power_Systemschraube_EN_06_2023.pdf like I said mine are 280mm through 180mm insulation and I’m happy with them. The tech team at eurotec said I could use 600mm spacing for the screws but it was easier for me to use 500mm so even stronger Edited October 2 by Chanmenie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 15 hours ago, saveasteading said: OK that is interesting. Tempered steel, close fixings? I'd still like to see someone testing a 150mm projecting one. If you think about it each screw only has about 2-3 kg hanging from it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: If you think about it Always a good idea. Lighter cladding and closer centred fixings than I imagined perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Just now, saveasteading said: Always a good idea. Lighter cladding and closer centred fixings than I imagined perhaps. He said cladding was 11 kg a metre, add in 3m of roof batten. call it 15-18kg all in, divide by 9 fixings. under 2kg per fixing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 5 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: divide by 9 fixings 9 fixings /m2. OK that's a lot of fixings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanmenie Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: 9 fixings /m2. OK that's a lot of fixings. Yeah I’ll know about when I’ve finished it all, drilling through 180mm EPS and 25mm batten then 75mm into c35 concrete is a chore, it’s difficult to clear the spoil so when you push the screw in it pushes the spoil back in the hole and binds the screw. Gonna try a length of brake pipe attached to a blow gun with a compressor and blow the holes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttimer Posted October 3 Author Share Posted October 3 On 02/10/2024 at 10:02, Conor said: What are you blocks and what is your wall build up? We are using Izodom - 100mm EPS on the exterior, 25mm vertical batons, 25mm horizontal batons and 20mm cladding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsttimer Posted October 3 Author Share Posted October 3 (edited) On 02/10/2024 at 10:53, Russell griffiths said: Look at the manufacture details, you only need to find one plastic Webb, the others will be spaced the exact distance apart that the factory made them. they haven’t moved, some icf have vertical webbs and some have horizontal. find one and it’s just a bit of measuring to find the rest. Yes. But the tricky bit is that the blocks haven't always been put in the same way up and when a new block starts this throws off the pattern Edited October 3 by Firsttimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) On 02/10/2024 at 18:21, saveasteading said: OK that is interesting. Tempered steel, close fixings? I'd still like to see someone testing a 150mm projecting one. So would I after say 3 months once the insulation has compressed / suffered from creep.. then you lose the friction that intialally makes it seem solid. Also if using timber battens the timber shrinks and that too further reduces the friction resistance. After that you are relying on the bending capacity of the fixing alone.. Edited October 3 by Gus Potter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 6 minutes ago, Firsttimer said: Yes. But the tricky bit is that the blocks haven't always been put in the same way up and when a new block starts this throws off the pattern What type of cladding are you fixing.. can you do us a wee sketch of what you are thinking about doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 9 hours ago, Firsttimer said: Yes. But the tricky bit is that the blocks haven't always been put in the same way up and when a new block starts this throws off the pattern What a nightmare. I've looked at that systems photos and see what you mean. How are going to plasterboard the inside if you can't find webs easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 @Chanmenie That sounds like a complete pain. I've been picking through my brain for ideas to save work. Cladding over thick external forum has been a debate on US forums for years. 1. You could build an independent metal or timber frame external to the ICF. 2. Maybe even a block wall. 3.Perhaps locate some kind of powder driven fixings that would penetrate all that EPS and concrete. 4. You could independently support the vertical battens at the top and/or at the base to take the vertical load reducing the need for so many fixings. Unfortunately the best answer I can think of is to install the vertical battens pre pour with long screws and let the concrete take care of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanmenie Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 8 hours ago, Iceverge said: @Chanmenie Unfortunately the best answer I can think of is to install the vertical battens pre pour with long screws and let the concrete take care of the rest. Yeah that might have worked, but at the time I built and concreted the gable ends I was going to have them rendered. Still if my compressor and pipe works it won’t be so bad. Because of the big windows in the gable ends there’s actually not that much cladding to fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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