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Open plan conversion - load bearing wall?


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Hi all,

 

We are currently trying to give our downstairs a more open feel so are moving doorways and taking down a wall or 2. I’ve attached the plan we are aiming to achieve. 
 

While removing plasterboard between the kitchen and livingroom noticed some OSB in the wall. I thought it was just behind the hob section but it’s across the whole all. I’ve stripped back where we want the opening - from the kitchen units to half way through the radiator (where it meets the hallway wall). The house is new build 5 years old.

 

Doing some quick research it seems that this wall is load baring and I’ll need to get a structural Engineer and get a beam placed?  The opening is 2m

 

While we wait on the structural engineer etc I’m assuming it’s ok to remove the OSB as long as the stud work remains until we can replace it with a recommended beam? 

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You’re going to have quite a lot less full height units with that layout (as a removal of the internal wall).

 

Is your house 2 or 3 storeys? If the latter, you are going to struggle to achieve BR compliance with that open plan layout. If the former, all windows to habitable rooms on the first floor would need to be suitable for means of escape.

Edited by DevilDamo
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It’s a 3 story plan. The garage conversion has already been done. All doors are fire rated. 


The kitchen to utility room knock through is a common alteration in my house type. I’ve seen a lot of people do what I’ve wanted to do jus the other way around with the garage instead of the kitchen - without the hallway block off. 

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Another thought.  Joist directions (and this is speculation) I would expect the joists above the living room to span side to side of the house as that is the shorter span.  But the joists above the kitchen / diner would be a long span doing that, so could that wall you are wanting to alter be supporting those joists and they are running front to back?

 

I would start by dropping the downlighters in the kitchen and having a look to see if you can determine joist direction in the kitchen / diner area.

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Im guessing a bit here. The wall is not supporting floors or an upper wall, or the studs would be closer together. But it is an important racking  (anti domino effect) wall, hence the osb and should not be removed.

Needs a proper assessment by an SE.

Because other people have done it, doesn't make it ok.

This really could fall down.

 

Was this built as part of a big development?

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Yeah going to have a feel up at the downlights just now. Contacted a couple local structural engineers so hopefully hear back this week. 
 

Yeah my thought process is the OSB is there for a reason so must be serving a purpose. 
 

it is a part of a bigger development. My house type has 2 floor and 3 floor option. We are in a 3 floor - which might be why we have the OSB in place

 

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29 minutes ago, Jduncan said:

part of a bigger development

Was there a manual with the house? There should be, and advising what the walls are doing.....

I've only seen one such and it was junk.... no useful info at all. 

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38 minutes ago, Jduncan said:

part of a bigger development

The reason I asked is: if this was a mass produced timber frame, then it is very unlikely the wall was built incorrectly.

I think 900 cc is very unusual and with osb being 1200 wide the boards would be horizontal.

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I have never seen a stud wall built at 900mm spacing.  That is extreme penny pinching and makes life awkward for the trades as already mentioned.  What plasterboard was on that wall?  Standard 12.5mm is surely not intended for a 900mm span is it?

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P.S I don't like your proposed new layout, it would force the living room into being a through route corridor and be tedious to keep going round through that to get to the stairs.  It flows much better as it is.  Utility is best left where it is as far from the living room as possible.  You don't want a washing machine that close unless you don't mind noise.

 

From my point of view it would devalue the house and make it less appealing to me, but others may differ.

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11 hours ago, Jduncan said:

It’s a 3 story plan. The garage conversion has already been done. All doors are fire rated. 

The doors are fire rated for a reason - they protect the means of escape in case of fire, down the stairs and out the front door. The proposed layout negates this with any fire in the lounge/kitchen making the stairs unusable. Those on the first floor may have access to escape windows but those on the second would have no way out. It'll contravene the Building Regulations and be too much of a risk. At least retain the separation between the lounge and the hallway to protect the escape route.

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10 hours ago, saveasteading said:

But it is an important racking  (anti domino effect) wall, hence the osb and should not be removed. Needs a proper assessment by an SE. This really could fall down.

+1.

 

If it is a structural wall, you will also need Building Regulations approval.

 

8 hours ago, ProDave said:

I don't like your proposed new layout, it would force the living room into being a through route corridor and be tedious to keep going round through that to get to the stairs.  It flows much better as it is.

Another +1.

 

It will also make the staircase feel enclosed, it's not good to have to walk through a kitchen to get to another room and there doesn't look much space for the kitchen island. As a minimum, more the kitchen to the garage side of the new room.

 

52 minutes ago, kandgmitchell said:

The doors are fire rated for a reason...It'll contravene the Building Regulations and be too much of a risk. At least retain the separation between the lounge and the hallway to protect the escape route.

+1. If do you open it up then you'll need to install a fire suppression system to comply with Building Regulations.

 

Edited by Mike
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2 hours ago, kandgmitchell said:

The doors are fire rated for a reason - they protect the means of escape in case of fire, down the stairs and out the front door. The proposed layout negates this with any fire in the lounge/kitchen making the stairs unusable. Those on the first floor may have access to escape windows but those on the second would have no way out. It'll contravene the Building Regulations and be too much of a risk. At least retain the separation between the lounge and the hallway to protect the escape route.


sorry poor drawing on the plan.  There is a door from the hallway to the livingroom. 
 

I get the points about going through rooms etc. the garage conversion is currently our play room. So we need to go through the utility room to get into it. Without ripping out the relocating the WC this is the only way. I feel the livingroom, kitchen, playroom flows a lot nicer than Kitchen, utility, playroom. 
 

Got a structural engineer coming out this week and had a family

friend come in who’s done similar work who’s said it will probably need steel goalposts. 
 

 

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A worrying thought.

That stud wall would need 2 more studs to be at 600cc. An extra £6.

And it should have noggins.

I don't think a designer or the developer decided that.

Was this subbed to a little builder who put 4 studs in the wall and 2 in the van?

 

How often do I see someone on Facebook selling a pile of stud? Why do they have it? Where did it come from?

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The stud wall was put in by the builder. Just measured and they are 550 apart. Don’t know where the 900 chat is coming from. 
 

the OSB defeats the need for noggins? But even so they are present. Just below the kitchen unit height 

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6 minutes ago, Jduncan said:

 

the OSB defeats the need for noggins? But even so they are present. Just below the kitchen unit height 

Looks like they were not there as part of the wall, but for making a good fixing for cabinets and sockets etc

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5 hours ago, FuerteStu said:

Looks like they were not there as part of the wall, but for making a good fixing for cabinets and sockets etc


no it’s rack panels. If it was for cabinets it would have been the other side 

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Standard timber frame kit is studs at 600 centres and no noggins.  Top and bottom rail plus connecting plate at the top.  The noggins in the pic are for wall or tall units.  OSB is for racking and strength.  Amazing how a sheet of 9mm OSB stiffens a wall.

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12 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Amazing how a sheet of 9mm OSB stiffens a wall.

As discussed elsewhere I've recently been knocking up such a wall. What I found was that the osb is very fragile at the perimeter, where a squint screw or a little  twist will break it. But on the central stud they fix snugly, as they do on noggins and any other non perimeter surface. Then it is stiff and think the perimeter ones work well enough in shear.

6 hours ago, Jduncan said:

Don’t know where the 900 chat is coming from.

Glad it's all ok. It's the danger of misinterpreting a photo.

There are a few options to keep the house standing.

Will you keep us informed?

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