Kuro507 Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 We are in the process of completing on a house that is served by a private borehole. Unfortunately the owner is in a care home and an executor is dealing with the sale, paperwork is somewhat lacking. Nobody knows where the borehole is (Believed to have been installed around 1994) I've looked at the filtration system in the garage and can see the incoming water pipe and outgoing power for the pump, coming from a controller on the wall. It exits underground as it goes through the wall. The controller has a 2008 manufacturer date on it, so somebody is likely to have changed the pump back then. A couple of us have poked around the garden and have not been able to find any signs of a manhole or pipe head. Logically speaking its going to be some distance from the old septic tank that serves the house (It predates the borehole). Do any of you have any ideas about what sort of borehole would have been created back in 1994? Would it typically have something above ground, or perhaps under a manhole cover? (Photos would be great) The only idea I have right now, is for somebody to use one of those cable finders (like they use before digging up the road), to try and trace the pump power cable back to the borehole. Digging the pipe up seems like a lot of work, especialy in a well established, and overgrown, garden. Thanks in advance for ideas and suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Find your local water diviner. Ours found where our bore hole should be located and depth to drill, and was out by a metre on depth and spot on with location. £80 well spent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Whoever drilled the borehole could have a record of where it is - if you don't know who did it try ringing around a few of the local companies (probably not very many) and one should have a record of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 3 hours ago, JohnMo said: spot on with location. How do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerN Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Try British Geological Survey https://www.bgs.ac.uk/information-hub/borehole-records/ What is a borehole record? Boreholes range from one to several thousand metres deep. Borehole records are produced from a geologist’s or surveyor’s observations of the rock core extracted from the ground and typically include locality and lithological descriptions with depth and thickness. Geophysical logs may also be noted from on-site measurements. Abbreviations used in borehole/water well records What is a borehole? 400 KB pdf National well archive Searching BGS borehole records also gives you access to the the National Well Record Collection. It contains more than 130 000 classified records of wells, boreholes and springs within England and Wales; a unique database of hydrogeological information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 40 minutes ago, Tom said: How do you know? Because it's been drilled and has been product water for the last 4 years. He also said all the feed sources for the well. So should be able to follow your pipes etc to get to the borehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro507 Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 10 hours ago, FarmerN said: Try British Geological Survey https://www.bgs.ac.uk/information-hub/borehole-records/ What is a borehole record? Boreholes range from one to several thousand metres deep. Borehole records are produced from a geologist’s or surveyor’s observations of the rock core extracted from the ground and typically include locality and lithological descriptions with depth and thickness. Geophysical logs may also be noted from on-site measurements. Abbreviations used in borehole/water well records What is a borehole? 400 KB pdf National well archive Searching BGS borehole records also gives you access to the the National Well Record Collection. It contains more than 130 000 classified records of wells, boreholes and springs within England and Wales; a unique database of hydrogeological information. Thanks, already checked and not on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro507 Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 10 hours ago, Tom said: Whoever drilled the borehole could have a record of where it is - if you don't know who did it try ringing around a few of the local companies (probably not very many) and one should have a record of it. Thanks, the engineer who did the water quality survey did get sight of a invoice, but I am strugling to get a copy (question is now with my Solicitors). He reckoned the grid coordinates put in 80m away in a field across a road, I have not found it there. Back in 1994 its likely to be handwritten invoice, so I wonder if he made a mistake reading the numbers. Its frustrating just how difficult this is proving to be. Understanding how a borehole is likely to have beem constructed back in 1994, may help me to find it. eg. whether its more likely to be a capped off pipe above ground, or a box above ground containing the pump wiring etc, or whether it was common proactice to build it all into a hole with a manhole cover. Would they have lined them with a plastic pipe back then? PS. We are also in South Devon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 3 hours ago, Kuro507 said: PS. We are also in South Devon Aha! Guess you've tried ML Eden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 13 hours ago, JohnMo said: Because it's been drilled and has been product water for the last 4 years. Sure, but how do you know a better spot might not have been 5/10/50m away? Without multiple drills I guess you'd never know if he was "spot on" or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 35 minutes ago, Tom said: Sure, but how do you know a better spot might not have been 5/10/50m away? Without multiple drills I guess you'd never know if he was "spot on" or not! Whatever, I will bow out, leave to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 41 minutes ago, Tom said: you'd never know if he was "spot on" or not! Yes he does because it worked and has been for 4 years 🤷♂️. My local water company found a main that was missing from their records by using rods, they do work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Okay okay, but just finding water by drilling in the ground does not mean he was "spot on" - saying this implies that it was the best place to drill, which is impossible to say unless multiple holes are drilled. I'm sure you could make a reasonable guess on where to drill just by looking at local topography. No divining rods needed. As for finding a water main, different I guess (though is is third hand information/heresay?) - but has any water divining ever actually held up to scientific scrutiny? Sounds like I'm being an irritating pedant, sorry if so @JohnMo, just my science background bubbling to the surface I guess! Genuinely interested if anyone knows of any controlled studies pitting divining against educated guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro507 Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 1 hour ago, Tom said: Aha! Guess you've tried ML Eden? No, Who is ML Eden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 https://www.eden4plumbing.co.uk/ They seem to have done most if not all of the boreholes in the area. Can't remember her name, but there is a woman who works in the office who has an encyclopaedic knowledge - she remembered ours form 15yrs ago.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 14 minutes ago, Tom said: I'm sure you could make a reasonable guess on where to drill just by looking at local topography. No divining rods needed. Well crack on then, rods are used by professionals and proven to work as they did locating my water main which was nowhere near it was supposed to be. No one’s going to spend money drilling lots of holes to prove water diving works or not because it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Crikey, any one on here still think the earth is flat? Peace out @joe90 and @JohnMo, weather's too good to be stuck inside: I'm going to bend some coat hangers and give this a go 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 7 minutes ago, joe90 said: rods are used by professionals and proven to work as they did locating my water Just to butt in once more - it was a condition of drilling - no water diviner no borehole. 29 minutes ago, Tom said: but has any water divining ever actually held up to scientific scrutiny Don't know - don't care really. The man said, drill here, you will hit water at about 16-20m ignore not enough water going to that site, drill to 32m. Report from drilling company Drilled new borehole to 34m Used 27m steel casing. First strike at 20m. Second strike at 29m. Estimated flow at time of drilling 900 gallons per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro507 Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 On 29/08/2024 at 11:18, Tom said: https://www.eden4plumbing.co.uk/ They seem to have done most if not all of the boreholes in the area. Can't remember her name, but there is a woman who works in the office who has an encyclopaedic knowledge - she remembered ours form 15yrs ago.... As it happens, I have been contacting a number of local Businesses who install or manage Private water suplies. Sandra at ML Eden & Son came back to me yesterday witha ton of information, including a couple of photos of the borehole which show its location! Whilst they did not install it, they have maintained it in the past (not for 6 years). Now in discussion about survey and upgrades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 On 29/08/2024 at 11:24, joe90 said: Well crack on then, rods are used by professionals and proven to work as they did locating my water main which was nowhere near it was supposed to be. No one’s going to spend money drilling lots of holes to prove water diving works or not because it does. Ditto for me. Except it was me with my rods that found the water main, not where it was mapped as being, when the Scottish Water subcontractors were about to give up and go home because they could not find it. someone that can do divining (that might even be you, go on try it) could follow the water pipe out of the garage to the well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 I was talking to a gang putting in a water connection, this week. They used rod divining, even though they had a cat scanner provided. A 100mm steel pipe would not be the most difficult to find. But they reckoned it was more accurate and the accuracy saved digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) On 29/08/2024 at 09:41, Tom said: Sure, but how do you know a better spot might not have been 5/10/50m away? Without multiple drills I guess you'd never know if he was "spot on" or not! What would constitute a better spot? If they drilled a hole, and struck sufficient potable water for the house what else do you need. You could also argue that drill a hole almost anywhere in the right kind of ground (given the known geology) and you’ll strike water. I’m also skeptical about divining. Edited September 6 by Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) Bloke from the water board came out when I had a leak. East European lad. Whipped out some divining rods but said the water board frowned upon them so I'd best not mention it. He located the leak within 10' over about 50m. Said he couldn't be 100% as there was a concrete path alongside the house. The leak was under the path. The path had been reinforced with old chain link fencing. Guess that masked his divining a bit. Edited September 6 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 I asked ChatGPT the likelihood of a borehole hitting water giving it my address and postcode. Reckoned 70-80%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Walker Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 On 28/08/2024 at 15:58, Kuro507 said: We are in the process of completing on a house that is served by a private borehole. Unfortunately the owner is in a care home and an executor is dealing with the sale, paperwork is somewhat lacking. Nobody knows where the borehole is (Believed to have been installed around 1994) I've looked at the filtration system in the garage and can see the incoming water pipe and outgoing power for the pump, coming from a controller on the wall. It exits underground as it goes through the wall. The controller has a 2008 manufacturer date on it, so somebody is likely to have changed the pump back then. A couple of us have poked around the garden and have not been able to find any signs of a manhole or pipe head. Logically speaking its going to be some distance from the old septic tank that serves the house (It predates the borehole). Do any of you have any ideas about what sort of borehole would have been created back in 1994? Would it typically have something above ground, or perhaps under a manhole cover? (Photos would be great) The only idea I have right now, is for somebody to use one of those cable finders (like they use before digging up the road), to try and trace the pump power cable back to the borehole. Digging the pipe up seems like a lot of work, especialy in a well established, and overgrown, garden. Thanks in advance for ideas and suggestions All boreholes are/should be registered at https://www.bgs.ac.uk/information-hub/borehole-records/ This is a record of a borehole near (100 metres) me in 1929 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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