Can you build a quality home for £1500 per sq M in 2024?

[ScottishPete]

Hello All,

 

Writing from up here in sunny Scotland. I am a relative novice in the building industry and have, due to a weird series of events, found myself in the position of project managing a new build development of houses in the Loch Lomond National Park.

 

In short, I started working for a computer-illiterate entrepreneur on one project, and he has decided to pick up this development he shelved because of COVID.

 

The site has live planning in perpetuity for 12 units across 5 house types: 8 detached and 4 semi-detached. The majority of the site is leveled correctly, but we estimate about 600 tonnes of soil needs to be removed from one section. Additionally, a large retaining wall and road need to be installed.

 

My main simple question comes down to the costing of core building works.

 

I understand that for a high-quality build, we should be looking at £1800-£2000 Sq M. Frankly, these numbers suggest the project is completely unviable as our top sale price is £550k for our premium units in our area.

 

Timber Kit quote's are coming in at around £400 sq M which includes insulation, windows, doors and roughing aspects.  Their quotes for labour seem reasonable but we may end up using the same contractor for the whole project.

 

Is £1500-£1600 per square meter achievable to reach a fair standard in the present climate asuming a very basic internal finish in which we would hope to offer extras to customers who buy off plan?

 

Any advice, insights, or experiences you can share would be greatly appreciated!

 

[MikeSharp01]

Sounds like a great project in a truly wonderful place - building in a national park must add some small costs but is neutral in most dimensions assuming labour can be locally sourced. Are there any caveats around affordable housing etc for the build - are they for local people or will the wealthy coves from Edinburgh and Glasgow rush in a snaffle them up for holiday homes? If they are able to do that it would raise the base price, and hence your headroom, albeit at some disadvantage to the local people.

[Jilly]

Some thoughts/observations:

People vary they include foundations when they quote the per sq meter price.
Not many of us here have the economies of scale you might have. 
You are very identifiable, it might be worth speaking to the moderators? 
@Gus Potteris a structural engineer (SE) with vast experience of the industry in Scotland who might be able to give you some good advice. 
You might have a very steep learning curve. 
Not sure if Scotland has CIL payments, but something with would affect the bottom line. 
 

Edited July 26 by Jilly

[nod]

Yes 

We have moved in today and spent £335000 on 420m2 build Sill an oak porch to put in and all the landscaping 

35k vat claim to come at some stage 

[LA3222]

I hate these types of threads.....there is absolutely zero standardised way of quantifying this question. There are far too many variables in how folks achieve a self build and what they include in their costs to enable a like for like comparison. @nod is an absolute outlier and every time this question is raised pipes up about how little he has spent per m2 with no context to how that was achieved. Is land included in your cost there, i expect not, how much have you spent on labour throughout vs how much have you done yourself? There is not much to be saved on materials...shopping around and economies of scale will help but the margains for material cost savings are small compared to the savings which can be made if you eliminate external labour costs and are able to do the work yourself. Labour costs are the killer and individual self build costs per m2 are primarily determined by how much work they can actually do themselves. 

 

But it comes at a cost of time.

[scottishjohn]

8 hours ago, ScottishPete said:

Additionally, a large retaining wall and road need to be installed.

do not underestimate the cost of retaining walls 

 

 as a guide  look at cost of concrete "lego blocks "--and work out how many you would need 

 with right foundations they are quick to build with a digger ---

 

 

you say large 

 

what is large --how high + how long and what sort of ground is it  on-- 

do you have rock that needs to be removed --

how is the ground behind going to be drained  and where to 

 

 sewage system for whole site ?

 

that will need to be a serious system  

 

lanscaping costs?

 

 

this project needs to be looked  at as one job including roads  and all services ,even if it is to be done  in sections 

 

 maybe a talk with a larger developer to see if they are interested in buying the site 

 

the number they come with will tell you if its  viable  

 

sites like that are always being sort  after by larger developers

 

 

 600tons of  "soil" to be removed 

 

thats not alot for the size of your site and probavly could be spread about ?

 and have you thought about how much soil you need to move to build your road?

 

 alot of work to do before you do anything more  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26 by scottishjohn

[JohnMo]

If you can't do quality builds with  the economy of scale, of 12 units you are doing it wrong.

 

No house builder would exist.

 

Asking the question - says are you the right person for the job. You should have plans for site, plans for each building and each should be fully costed. Without that level of detail, you are boomed from day one. Comparing one off build costs, where every different build method has been used, some all contractor, some no contractor and anything in between, to a development is nuts.

 

8 hours ago, ScottishPete said:

very basic internal finish

Why, why not good quality, and better than building regs insulation etc. building a good building is a selling point, people see and feel the quality and say that's my next home. Quality sells itself, demands a premium price and really costs very little extra per m2 to build. Basic demands a low price, cost nearly as much to build as a good build.

 

Save money by building smart, lots of common features and designs, so they are repeats with minor changes to give individual feel.

 

Why not make the kits on site yourselves?

 

[scottishjohn]

18 hours ago, ScottishPete said:

The site has live planning in perpetuity for 12 units across 5 house types: 8 detached and 4 semi-detached. T

so you must have detailed plans if you have live planning -- which has a time limit -----otherwise its just outline planning 

 

which means you do not know what restrictions or requirements will be from planning 

 is there mains water  and power mains sewage to site 

 of course not forgetting open reach ducting for telphones and fibre broadband 

all these need to put in before or at same time road goes in --so lots of money before you staert building first house 

I got my power cable in -within 3 months of asking --but still been waiting 4months + for a meter --

do not underestimate the time and expense of these things

 

Edited July 26 by scottishjohn

[nod]

13 hours ago, LA3222 said:

I hate these types of threads.....there is absolutely zero standardised way of quantifying this question. There are far too many variables in how folks achieve a self build and what they include in their costs to enable a like for like comparison. @nod is an absolute outlier and every time this question is raised pipes up about how little he has spent per m2 with no context to how that was achieved. Is land included in your cost there, i expect not, how much have you spent on labour throughout vs how much have you done yourself? There is not much to be saved on materials...shopping around and economies of scale will help but the margains for material cost savings are small compared to the savings which can be made if you eliminate external labour costs and are able to do the work yourself. Labour costs are the killer and individual self build costs per m2 are primarily determined by how much work they can actually do themselves. 

 

But it comes at a cost of time.

Lots of context if you bother to look 

I’ve included everything accept the land purchase But included the fees 

I published my spreadsheet on our previous build £815m2 

 

[nod]

12 minutes ago, nod said:

Lots of context if you bother to look 

I’ve included everything accept the land purchase But included the fees 

I published my spreadsheet on our previous build £815m2 

 

We’ve broached this subject many times Probably a bit before your time on here When quoting cost m2 it would be misleading to include the land purchase As some are lucky enough to be gifted there plots We bought to plots and have only built on one So including both wouldn't make any difference to our total spend but would be misleading 

[Gus Potter]

23 hours ago, ScottishPete said:

Writing from up here in sunny Scotland. I am a relative novice in the building industry and have,

Given the size of this project and complexity my advice is to diplomatically extracate yourself from this.

 

If you are intent on pursuing then you need to be commanding a fee of somewhere between 8- 12% of the build cost. Set out the deliverables, get paid in stages and get a good QS in right now.

[Gus Potter]

15 hours ago, LA3222 said:

 is an absolute outlier and every time this question is raised pipes up about how little he has spent per m2 with no context to how that was achieved.

To put a bit of an impartial slant on this..

 

@nod is highly experience, has time and also has a day job and contacts in the construction industry?

 

Now I'm not going to cast stones as I use to be a Contractor and also had plenty of employees and subbies that I could chuck at my own stuff and make the money work.

 

Nods figures are probably achieveable if you are set up this way.. but this is a self build forum and I can tell you (I do this as a day job) that Nods rates are "optomistic". But also Nod works like a fiend seven days a week! Nod has some serious commitement and deserves the reward. But often folk on BH have young kids so you can't do what Nod does.

 

My hat goes off to Nod for commitment but most of my Clients just don't fit into Nod's mould and we need to reach a compromise and the build cost goes upas a consequence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gus Potter]

33 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Given the size of this project and complexity my advice is to diplomatically extracate yourself from this.

 

If you are intent on pursuing then you need to be commanding a fee of somewhere between 8- 12% of the build cost. Set out the deliverables, get paid in stages and get a good QS in right now.

Oh and if you do this you will find that you are falling under the CDM regulations not least. Please spend some time investigating what you're getting yourself into.. hence the percentage fee rates I mention.

 

How well are you insured to do this? It's not just to protect you it's also for your Client in case you get run over by a bus.

 

You have a duty of care and while it sounds great to help folk out when you do so things have to be set up correctly.

 

 

[saveasteading]

On 25/07/2024 at 23:21, ScottishPete said:

 

 

Is £1500-£1600 per square meter achievable

There is very good advice above.

It looks like an easy way to go bust, or a very hard way to make money.

All I would add is.

As a designer and contractor I won some jobs at half the next price. We made the intended margin. Occasionally we would not win a tender, but the contractors didn't last long.

That was in a very specific field. Every building is different.

If every building could be built at the same cost there would be one designer in the land and no point in many contractors tendering.. 

Can it be done? Maybe.

But probably only by utter experts in design options for best value.

It sounds scary to me. You need expertise but that costs. Maybe sell as is?

[nod]

7 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

To put a bit of an impartial slant on this..

 

@nod is highly experience, has time and also has a day job and contacts in the construction industry?

 

Now I'm not going to cast stones as I use to be a Contractor and also had plenty of employees and subbies that I could chuck at my own stuff and make the money work.

 

Nods figures are probably achieveable if you are set up this way.. but this is a self build forum and I can tell you (I do this as a day job) that Nods rates are "optomistic". But also Nod works like a fiend seven days a week! Nod has some serious commitement and deserves the reward. But often folk on BH have young kids so you can't do what Nod does.

 

My hat goes off to Nod for commitment but most of my Clients just don't fit into Nod's mould and we need to reach a compromise and the build cost goes upas a consequence.

Thank you for that The key is the labour 

I have employees But other than our son helping us at times Which I’ve added to the spreadsheet at £250 per day Not one of them has helped on either build It sort felt like cheating 

I’ve used an Electrian friend and plumber But had the same arrangement with them £3700 to the Electrian and £2900 to the plumber 

I’ve also a joiner friend who owed me ten days But I’ve added him to the spreadsheet in the same way 

labour is the key 

But buying in is also so important 

My local merchants with 360 employees sell everything at good prices But can’t come near the online guys for bathrooms etc Near Lu £100 difference on Grohe showers x5 

Geberits similar 

 

Like last time we will if publish a spreadsheet ( If anyone is interested)

But I will point out the obvious The larger the build the lower m2 Services and surveys are the same for a modest build and a Grand design 

 

No magic built or secrets Ask away about specific items 

 

Owe just thought I was let down with the foundations The large Armstrong foundation blocks where to heavy for the delicate little creatures We employed five brickies Everything for 24k

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LA3222]

10 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

Nods figures are probably achieveable if you are set up this way.. but this is a self build forum and I can tell you (I do this as a day job) that Nods rates are "optomistic

This is pretty much the point I was making. I've been on the forum since pretty much the beginning, I know what Nods background is and his business etc. I saw all the in and outs of his first build and the costs and I have seen this self same question crop up so many times and I think it is really unhelpful when folks just sling a magic number of £850/m2 or whatever out there.

 

Casual new members looking for answers will have no idea what the context of that number is and may naively think they can use that for their cost assumptions.

 

This is a terrible question with lots of variables hidden under the surface and if people want to chick numbers out there, they really should give full disclosure to how that was achieved because not wveryone will be aware of folks background, experience and personal circumstances which feed into how those numbers are achieved.

 

I'm six years in and sitting at around £1250/m2....meaningless to a casual observer as my circumstances, location, Labour effort are not contextualised to allow an understanding of how I am at that figure.

[Dave Jones]

simple answer is no chance.

 

The fantasy build costs you get here are full of free labour so have to be taken with large pinch of salt.

 

Just get your plans professionally QS'd and you will know to the penny the real cost.