Graven Hill 156

[Visti]

Hi all!

 

Following a short stint lurking and reading some very informative posts on this forum I thought I'd sign-up and introduce myself. 

 

The name is Oliver and my partner and I have been looking to self-build for at least 5 years. We did all the courses (free and paid) on finding land, obtaining planning permission, exploring settlement boundaries, meeting with the local parish councils, searching the land registries, looking up rail and utility sales, talking directly potential neighbours, handing out filers at local pubs... you name it, we've tried it all in the name of finding a plot. We just didn't account for the south east, let alone oxfordshire. Does our naivety and inexperience show though? 

 

The time wasn't wasted however. We kept our eyes on the Graven Hill project since 2014 and were finally successful in reserving plot 156 earlier this year. We're at the Developed Design phase of the build and are currently assessing all the structural quotes with a fine tooth comb before settling on a supplier and the technical design. We are using Charlie Luxton for the design of the build and have many positive words to say about them as an architectural firm. 

 

Many of you will be glad to hear that MBC are in the running for this, included specifically after so many positive reviews from this board. The fact they turned around a 2nd quote for their passive standard within a few hours is a great indication of their professionalism. Now just to figure out which supplier/structure/insulation to go for... hopefully you'll see a few of my posts around asking about those very things.

 

3D Render:

 

 

156 outlined in red (centre)

 

 

 

Site Plan w/ Ground Floor

 

 

First Floor

 

 

Section:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Visti
smaller file size for GH plan.jpg

[TheMitchells]

Nice spot Visti!  we'd been looking at Graven Hill since it was first mentined by Cherwell but were disappointed by the layout of the roads - we want Passivhaus and a south facing garden but these are almost none existant on the edges, ie like your's over looking swales or wood.  I may have to pop to their next open day when the latest plots are released.  Good luck with it all.

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

Looks like you have secured a nice plot there. We will be watching with interest how this proceeds.  Some of us are a little skeptical about the limitations on how and when you build, so will be interested how you find it first hand.

 

I am intrigued by the layout, particularly the "bunk room" and the thinking behind that.

[MikeSharp01]

Hi and welcome to THE forum. Love the design, no gutters and jet black - just like ours. Looking forward to hearing more. +1 on what is with the bunk room....

[PeterW]

Welcome..!

 

Two comments on your plans ...

 

1. You have 10/14 bed spaces upstairs and only one WC.... And no ensuite ..?

2. Make sure your architect draws a fully detailed plan of how he expects that internal valley to work ! Lovely detail but they have to be designed in - for example your 3D has no down pipe on the front so either you need internal down pipes (cost and complexity) or external ones added as an afterthought which look naff. Quick estimate and I'm pretty sure you will need either a single 110mm down pipe or a pair of 65mm to meet building regs. 

 

Good luck and and let's see the questions fly...!

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

44 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

what is with the bunk room

Fast arse, loads of kids ? Simples . 

Hi and welcome . 

[Lesgrandepotato]

Air BnB racked and stacked to make future income?

[Visti]

3 hours ago, TheMitchells said:

Nice spot Visti!  we'd been looking at Graven Hill since it was first mentined by Cherwell but were disappointed by the layout of the roads - we want Passivhaus and a south facing garden but these are almost none existant on the edges, ie like your's over looking swales or wood.  I may have to pop to their next open day when the latest plots are released.  Good luck with it all.

 

Laura had her eye on it for two years, so we're very glad we got it even thought it cost us more than expected. There'll eventually be some south facing gardens along the edge, but it'll take many years before they exhaust the northern and eastern segments and go for the south, unfortunately. The large veranda to the' 'front' of the house is to compensate for that very fact.  If you need any info from the inline track then throw me a message on here. 

 

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Two comments on your plans ...

1. You have 10/14 bed spaces upstairs and only one WC.... And no ensuite ..?

2. Make sure your architect draws a fully detailed plan of how he expects that internal valley to work ! Lovely detail but they have to be designed in - for example your 3D has no down pipe on the front so either you need internal down pipes (cost and complexity) or external ones added as an afterthought which look naff. Quick estimate and I'm pretty sure you will need either a single 110mm down pipe or a pair of 65mm to meet building regs. 

 

Thanks for the comments Peter! A 2nd unlabled bathroom on the ground floor. But you're right, no en-suite. It's been pointed out to us many times but we're not convinced that it is worth the added meterage or loss of space elsewhere. We realise it's a very unusual design, so we've designed an alternative plan for the bunk / multi function room that has a more conventional layout of two bedrooms and an additional bathroom between the two. Then, bedrooms 2 & 3 can be joined for a decent master bedroom with an en-suite. That's all for if we decide to sell and make it more conventional, which we hope not to have to do for a long while!

 

Detailed plans are around the corner, but I'll keep in mind to raise this with our architect this Friday. Perhaps one or two down through the corner of the utility room. Thanks!   

 

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

I am intrigued by the layout, particularly the "bunk room" and the thinking behind that.

 

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

 +1 on what is with the bunk room....

 

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Fast arse, loads of kids ? Simples . 

 

57 minutes ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

Air BnB racked and stacked to make future income?

 

Haha, good ideas, but none quite on the mark! Not far behind every spanish woman is their family, and extended family and so on... easter and christmas are usually packed affairs at 15-20 people. That doesn't even include my side of the family. Space is a premium, not just beds but also a quiet space to hide away for a moments quiet! 

 

Nick was not far off though as the kids aren't far behind either! 

 

Thanks all!

Edited October 23, 2017 by Visti
grammar

[Nickfromwales]

? 'word'. 

Ive got 4, fill your boots . 

[Ferdinand]

Welcome and interesting plan.

 

You are at a general stage, but my comments. Looks like a good practical general design.

 

1 - Need to access bins without going into the rain?

 

2 - Where is your workshop?

 

3 - It looks seriously short of shed-space / outside storage. I doubt whether 2 bike spaces is enough (policy minimum?) - if you intend to have the option of being a cyclo-family then you will need space for things like enough bikes for everyone, tag-alongs and trailers, and maintenance space. And potentially velo-mobiles if the country comes to its senses on infrastructure.

 

What about the lawnmower and the garden tools?

 

What it comes down to is that you may want 150-200 sqft of shed-type space. What about extending the 'car port' block back behind the line of the house? I might be inclined to build that such that it could be a study or studio in future.

 

4 - Get that valley right. Enough width to walk along it for roof maintenance without wobbling, and for 2 people to squeeze past ("you have a look at this end"). My preference is to separate walking surface from drainage surface by building up the walking surface but making it dismountable, to protect the former.

 

That landing rooflight is your valley access, I assume? Move it so that it is not over the stairs (so can just lean a ladder through it), and make sure that it is suitably hinged (top or side hung opening outwards, I think, or mid hinge and large - need space for egress for future materials) and big enough for comfortable use when you get to be a fat man aged 76. Make sure the bottom structural edge is above the maximum depth of water / snow you can ever get in the valley, to save your seals, but low enough to climb back in easily with one step onto the ladder. There is something to be said for a notch or bar just below the rooflight edge to lean / hook your ladder on to if you prefer not to have it sticking out above the roof when using.

 

And have storage space on the landing for an ideally sized ladder / telescopic ladder and your window pole.

 

Had an old house with 5-6 different bits of valley / platform that had no access whatsoever before we installed it. You may be up there 3-5 times a year; make it easy.

 

5 - Do you think you will have enough bedrooms (and convertible bedrooms), eg if you have 5 kids? Try an exercise vs the bedroom gender mixing regs (under Overcrowding iirc) if they are eg M11, F12, M15, F15 and M16.

 

6 - There look to be interesting games to be played with cathedral ceilings upstairs. Provision for storage / sleeping mezzanine above the bunkroom and /or bedrooms?

 

7 - Intriguing that 2 parking spaces may be enough, and that reversing out is OK.

 

Best of luck.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

I was going to mention sheds. And that car port that covers half the car (Aesthetics has trumped over practicality?)  If you are having a car port it needs to cover both cars completely.

 

Sheds can be dealt with under permitted development, UNLESS PD rights have been suspended, in which case your planning needs to cover a lot of sheds, you can never have too many.

 

That bunk room, I would not call it that or include the bunks. It will impact your drainage requirements (I assume it's mains drainage) Just call it a multi function space and by all means put the bunks in later after completion sign off.

[Ferdinand]

Reflecting further, I think I would give some careful thought as to how to maintain the veranda / car port roofs, the walls above them, and the outside roof slopes.

 

I feel that the easy way to maintain the outside roofs *may* be from the central valley via a pair of roof ladders, and that you definitely need all or parts of the lower flattish roofs that can be worked on and from.

 

What details are necessary?

 

F

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Visti]

On 24/10/2017 at 03:20, Ferdinand said:

1. Need to access bins without going into the rain?

 

Not excessively fussed though it would be nice. I've got an alternative layout for the bins/bikes that ought to improve the car coverage in the car port, the number of bikes and gets the bins facing the inside. Just got to draw it all out and try it.

 

On 24/10/2017 at 03:20, Ferdinand said:

2 - Where is your workshop?

 

Hah! Laura giggled when she read that. Told her I don't know how many times but it's always 'after the build'... It may not be too late now that you've helped hammer that wedge in just a tad more!

 

On 24/10/2017 at 08:31, ProDave said:

I was going to mention sheds.

Sheds can be dealt with under permitted development, UNLESS PD rights have been suspended, in which case your planning needs to cover a lot of sheds, you can never have too many.

 

On 24/10/2017 at 03:20, Ferdinand said:

3 - It looks seriously short of shed-space / outside storage. I doubt whether 2 bike spaces is enough (policy minimum?) - if you intend to have the option of being a cyclo-family then you will need space for things like enough bikes for everyone, tag-alongs and trailers, and maintenance space. And potentially velo-mobiles if the country comes to its senses on infrastructure.

What about the lawnmower and the garden tools?

 

What it comes down to is that you may want 150-200 sqft of shed-type space. What about extending the 'car port' block back behind the line of the house? I might be inclined to build that such that it could be a study or studio in future.

 

We do have PD in Graven Hill despite the usual rules surrounding the development, hence the lack of any detailing of sheds or workshops yet. I like the idea of extending the car port to the back of the plot. Agree with the bike storage, tried to get that enlarged a few times but it keeps getting lost in the revisions. Try, try and try again!

 

On 24/10/2017 at 03:20, Ferdinand said:

 

4 - Get that valley right.

 

 

On 24/10/2017 at 14:59, Ferdinand said:

Reflecting further, I think I would give some careful thought as to how to maintain the veranda / car port roofs, the walls above them, and the outside roof slopes.

 

I feel that the easy way to maintain the outside roofs *may* be from the central valley via a pair of roof ladders, and that you definitely need all or parts of the lower flattish roofs that can be worked on and from.

 

We hadn't even thought about the valley until this post and your additional points really highlights that there's a lot still to do here. A raised industrial mesh to give a flat surface would be a good start, then there's the ladders and accessability to consider. Good thing the next meeting with the Architect is this Friday!

 

On 24/10/2017 at 03:20, Ferdinand said:

5 - Do you think you will have enough bedrooms (and convertible bedrooms), eg if you have 5 kids? Try an exercise vs the bedroom gender mixing regs (under Overcrowding iirc) if they are eg M11, F12, M15, F15 and M16.

 

Thanks for the heads up, I was aware of the Housing Act, but not that specific part on overcrouding! I've quoted the paragraph below for the benefit of others if this ever pops up on their search radar.

 

325    The room standard.

(1)The room standard is contravened when the number of persons sleeping in a dwelling and the number of rooms available as sleeping accommodation is such that two persons of opposite sexes who are not living together as husband and wife must sleep in the same room.
(2)For this purpose—
(a)children under the age of ten shall be left out of account, and
(b)a room is available as sleeping accommodation if it is of a type normally used in the locality either as a bedroom or as a living room.

 

On 24/10/2017 at 03:20, Ferdinand said:

6 - There look to be interesting games to be played with cathedral ceilings upstairs. Provision for storage / sleeping mezzanine above the bunkroom and /or bedrooms?

 

Exactly our thoughts too. Bedroom 2 & 3 are provisioned for a mezzanine, either for moving the beds up or for storage. As a kid I loved the mezzanine in my room. 

 

On 24/10/2017 at 03:20, Ferdinand said:

7 - Intriguing that 2 parking spaces may be enough, and that reversing out is OK.

 

Two are mandated, and we'll have space for a third car down the front side to the right if needed where we're having wild flowers. There's nothing stipulating the orientation of the cars or the need for a T drive... I may need to do some more digging in the requirements there!

 

On 24/10/2017 at 08:31, ProDave said:

And that car port that covers half the car (Aesthetics has trumped over practicality?)  If you are having a car port it needs to cover both cars completely.

 

Agreed, yet another change that keeps disappearing with each of the revisions. I'll be a bit more stern this time with the Architect.

 

On 24/10/2017 at 14:59, Ferdinand said:

What details are necessary?

 

Not sure I follow?

[Ferdinand]

@Visti

 

On the workshop etc, my concept could be to turn the gate by the back of the house through 90 degrees, and provision for a "garage" sized room beyond that (at least 3x6m if you can manage - ideally longer) corresponding to the full width of the driveway so the roof can continue. Could be a garage or studio or whatever, even starting out as just a roof on posts.

 

You could treat the area in front as a "kitchen garden" or play area.

 

On the Overcrowding, it is very unlikely to be applied to Owner-Occupied soon, but it is a useful tool for a quick assessment. OTOH look at how regulated children in cars are now, and before long the 'poorest' housing will be concentrated somewhat more in the OO sector (Rental is being vigorously addressed now), and someone may try something. I can see somewhere like Denmark or Sweden imposing requirements, and then it could end up here on a more bumph-y EPC.

 

On "Details" here, I mean what you put in at Design Stage to help useability later especially stuff that is cannot be retrofitted. eg Roof angle will affect the valley. Or if you decide to maintain the outer roofs via the valley, then making something strong enough to be a base point for a harness might be good, or if the other side making sure that your car port roof can be walked on and perhaps having something that will make sure that ladders up there are stable etc.  Offsetting the roof light on the landing would be a classic, or a shallow ladder cupboard behind a panel to prevent you having to troll a ladder upstairs every time etc.

 

One of the nicest ones I saw recently was where someone had used a sash window mechanism to create a pull-downable ladder to their mezzanine that stored vertically so used less space.

 

Logic says you need the workshop first, to build things in for the build.

 

F

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Visti]

On 26/10/2017 at 07:51, Ferdinand said:

Logic says you need the workshop first, to build things in for the build.

 

I only just realised I never responded to this post! 

 

I really like the idea of incorporating a workshop whilst extending the carport which in itself has always been too short in my opinion. We've got a final round of major changes going to the architect tomorrow before we submit to planning, so it has been included and it'd better stick this time! 

 

We've also added a roof light to the 'bunk' room so that there is valley access from within the house. Once we've settled some of the big roof items like the cladding I'll have a look at how to secure the area both for moving onto the external pitches and for potentially storing hidden things in the valley (a bee hive would be great!)