mike2016 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Hi, Very basic question: I've been fitting new innards to my cisterns to replace the old ball & cock valves with a dual flush system that has a built in overflow. Going fine so far but ran into a problem adding a valve to the cold water inlet on one of them. I've decided to add a valve by using the one built into a flexihose. I cut the copper pipe to size and used steel wool to clean off the paint. But....I've gone through 3 olives now and think I've squished the end of the copper pipe a bit at this stage try to get a good seal that doesn't leak. My latest attempt used additional PTFE at the head of the pipe just in front of the Olive but it's still weeping very slightly. Any further tightening just kinks the nut at a wierd angle. What are my options at this point to get a good seal? Replace part of the copper pipe? Last thing I want is for this thing to blow when I'm away for a few days! Thanks! Edited October 17, 2017 by mike2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Try replacing the nut but I'd reckon you'll need to replace the complete hose. When a nut goes off-square like that the threads are buggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 interesting - thought it might be the copper end causing this - I have some spare hoses so I might give one of those a shot and see if it helps......Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Replaced the complete hose, new nut & olive but still leaking. I don't like the look of the copper pipe as it was repaired just above the line I cut it, so it's got solder & imperfections on the copper surface making a seal harder. Think it's time to call a plumber and see what they think. Cheers. Edited October 17, 2017 by mike2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Looks like there's room to cut the copper pipe off to get a nice clean end, use a strip of emery cloth to get all the paint off to well below where the joint is, then you have two choices. Try and get a longer flexi, or solder on a short length of new pipe with an end feed connector. That will give you a pretty neat job, with a short flexi up to the cistern. I'd also be inclined to bin the flexi with the built in isolating ball valve, and fit a separate isolating valve to the copper pipe. That way you can replace the flexi in future by just turning off the supply locally. If you choose this option, then you could cut back and clean the existing copper pipe, fit an isolating valve, then add a short length of new copper above that to connect to a short flexi to the cistern. The key to getting this to work is cleanliness. I find that a strip of fine emery cloth, wrapped half around the pipe and pulled to and fro will get all the old paint off and clean the pipe back to a good finish. This works well where you cant get to the rear face of the pipe. For getting a good seal on any compression fitting the pipe needs to be clean, cut off square at the end so it seats fully in the fitting, have no burrs on the cut end and have a reasonably good surface finish. A thin smear of one of the proprietary compression joint sealants/lubricants makes all the difference, too. I tend to use a thin smear of liquid PTFE where the olive will go on the pipe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 +1. You don't need a plumber, keep the faith. ? The reason the first attempt failed is that very little pipe goes into a ballofix isolation valve, so when you don't hold the valve straight and snug whilst tightening the nut, it goes skew and it's game over. Do as @JSHarris says, cut the pipe back and clean it spotlessly. Fit a normal isolation valve, then a short pipe, then a normal flexible hose. Push the ballofix onto your freshly cut and cleaned existing pipe and draw a line around the pipe with a sharpie whilst keeping your finger pressed onto it to keep it fully inserted onto the pipe. Use that line as a guide whilst tightening to make sure you don't lift off or go skew. DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN AT THIS POINT! Make everything up, tightened snug but not murdered, and once all is in place and looking good just go back over yourself nipping up any obvious slack. Check and then check again after a half hour. Also check that water is definitely not creeping down the flexi and causing you to falsely think the leak is down below. Wrap a piece of kitchen roll around the halfway point on the flexi and squeeze it. If it's wet, the leak is from above ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 How did you originally cut the copper? It seems possible that you might have damaged it. One of those simple little donut-shaped pipe cutters is worth the £2 price even for a one off job like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Crofter said: How did you originally cut the copper? It seems possible that you might have damaged it. One of those simple little donut-shaped pipe cutters is worth the £2 price even for a one off job like this. £2? Ill take 10 please ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: £2? Ill take 10 please ! OK I was a few pence out! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Tube-Cutter-Wheel-Roller-3-22mm-Copper-Brass-Aluminium-Plastic-PVC-Pipe-/162447571132?epid=512731603&hash=item25d2a138bc:g:FIMAAOSwuxFY2fm9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 What donuts do you have in Haggisland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Deep fried ones, obviously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 This looks a bit more like a donut to me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: This looks a bit more like a donut to me ? Ah so that's why I never won bakeoff. They're all still a million miles better than a hacksaw though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Crofter said: Ah so that's why I never won bakeoff. They're all still a million miles better than a hacksaw though... Hell yea ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Fernox LS-X is fantastic in these situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) It's well worth learning how to solder copper pipe. Not nearly as hard as people make out. Tips: Use solder ring fittings Be obsessive about cleaning both the pipe and inside of the fitting with wire wool until it shines, then coat with flux. Make sure there is no water anywhere. Pipe and fittings must be bone dry. Do as much as possible on the bench then add the assembly to existing installation. Prep and solder all the joints on a fitting at the same time (eg on a T junction prep and put pipe in all 3 ports). If you aren't sure about a joint, sometimes twisting the joint while hot will get the solder to flow. Edited October 18, 2017 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Thanks all!! I decided to call the plumber in this time but appreciate all the advice. The gap between the pipe and the wall/skirting is very tight and trying to use the pipe cutter meant flexing the pipe at each turn which made me nervous about damage the joint under the floor...I ended up using a hacksaw. Got it fairly dry in the end, it was just weeping with mains pressure which wasn't too bad but I prefer bone dry and didn't want to leave it unattended when travelling for work etc! I'll persevere more with the last toilet I've to do this on - the pipe travels tight across the underside of the cistern before going into the floor. I can either leave the copper pipe as is and forget an isolation valve or figure out where best to make the cut .......then no more plumbing for me until I paint the kitchen ceiling where the last major leak was a few weeks ago! Update: One of the new joints is still weeping so that Fernox tip is just the ticket, cheers, Edited October 18, 2017 by mike2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Sometimes it has to be copper and I can only solder with Yorkshire fittings but most of the time I use plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now