Why technology has not transformed building….

[joe90]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8vzzjqyz5qo
 

discuss.

[ProDave]

9 minutes ago, joe90 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8vzzjqyz5qo
 

discuss.

Largely an advertisement for a company that wants to licence a manufacturing process.

 

Nothing new apart from that.

 

Timber framed buildings built in a factory and assembled on site is nothing new.  Yet a large amount of mass market UK builders still build in brick and block and seldom even use anything like posi joists to make the build easier because they cost a bit more.

[Moonshine]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

seldom even use anything like posi joists to make the build easier because they cost a bit more.

 

Pretty much every big builders uses timber I-joists.

 

Technology has transformed building design, management and the materials used significantly. Building techniques have changed only really changed slightly due to material changes.

 

The part that is fairly untouched in the labour, and until robotics advance it will largely be the same. 

[joe90]

12 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

The part that is fairly untouched in the labour,

However we have telehandlers loading ready mixed tubs or mortar rather than hod carriers and mixers on site!!,

[Guest28]

A lot of these 'modern and sustainable' builds with timber cladding and sheet roofing won't stand the test of time. They will be rotten and full of water ingress within a couple of decades. 

 

They're not that cheap either, the cost difference in between getting one of them and getting one with block walls and a slate roof that will last for a lot longer is not that much. 

 

These companies promote timber cladding and sheet roofing because it requires a lot less time and skill to do so they can increase their profit margins.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, MBT6 said:

They will be rotten and full of water ingress within a couple of decades. 

Not fair. 

A well designed and constructed building will survive for a long time in any material if used correctly.

I've been working with steel buildings for decades. 

The only issues have been where a client's architect has insisted on fancy details that are inappropriate and caused problems.

 

The rain washes the roof (avoid penetrations and valleys) and the walls too (avoid overhangs) 

Potential  problems are with bad detailing, inferior materials, and bad workmanship, but the same applies to traditional buildings.

 

1 hour ago, MBT6 said:

They're not that cheap either,

It depends.   There are projects where I specify or recommend old fashioned construction (small and fiddly usually), and others where modern techniques are better (much better) value.

 

For clarity and open-ness, I have never used or specified SIPS or polystyrene kits.

Any timber cladding I've used has been decorative and the building doesn't need it for any  weather or structural reason.

1 hour ago, MBT6 said:

it requires a lot less time and skill to do so they can increase their profit margins.

Sensible then, if the quality issues are attended to.

[Kelvin]

The biggest issue isn’t the technology. It’s all there to be used. It’s the awful standard of quality of too many of the trades who just don’t care. My experience has been bloody awful frankly. The UK builds pretty average houses that are poor value for money. 

[jayc89]

My mate was a sparky at L&Gs failed attempt at modular residential builds. Their plan was to have a factory similar to the car industry where materials go in one end and houses come out the other. He said it was red tape galore and the management could arrange the proverbial in a brewery. 

[joe90]

Anyone remember the grand designs “.huff house” programme, it can be done, they even cleaned their van at the end (and I loved their little black waistcoats).

[ProDave]

9 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Anyone remember the grand designs “.huff house” programme, it can be done, they even cleaned their van at the end (and I loved their little black waistcoats).

I did several new builds with a German gang (in the UK) and to be a Joiner there you need a proper apprenticeship and they are proud of their uniform and they all wore it on the builds we did.  Actually I think they were Austrian not German that I worked with.

 

At least one of them is still working here, on his own now and I met him again on a job last year, still wearing his uniform.  And he is one of only 2 joiners I would use for a job that needs a bit of thought and a good finish.

[SteamyTea]

Part of the problem is that UK house buyer are an ignorant bunch and will only stick to what they know.

That is bricks and tiled roofs.

 

The poor quality of the UK housing stock is basically caused by very bad management and terrible training.

[Kelvin]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

Anyone remember the grand designs “.huff house” programme, it can be done, they even cleaned their van at the end (and I loved their little black waistcoats).

Wife’s uncle lives in a Huf Haus. Stunningly well built. Build team were exceptional. The whole process from start to finish was slick and smooth. 
 

The only issue was with the foundation which the British did. 

[Guest28]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

I did several new builds with a German gang (in the UK) and to be a Joiner there you need a proper apprenticeship and they are proud of their uniform and they all wore it on the builds we did.  Actually I think they were Austrian not German that I worked with.

 

At least one of them is still working here, on his own now and I met him again on a job last year, still wearing his uniform.  And he is one of only 2 joiners I would use for a job that needs a bit of thought and a good finish.

 

Yes tradespeople are a lot more regulated and better trained in Germany compared to the UK, they have to do years of training.

 

In the UK tradespeople can do a few short courses (if they even do that) then start trading as Bodgit and Scarper Ltd.

Edited May 24 by MBT6

[joe90]

15 minutes ago, MBT6 said:

Yes tradespeople are a lot more regulated and better trained in Germany compared to the UK,

And France and  they get to not pay VAT (or claim it back!) which is why in France it can sometimes be cheaper to get a trade In rather than DIY.

[jayc89]

We have a 150 year old stair case that needs a bit of work, including the original rail. We've had a few joiners out to look at it and the stuff they were coming out with terrified me. It's a nightmare finding someone with a bit of skill rather than people who just want to hang doors, or fit kitchens. We tried speaking to a few carpenters and they're more interested in furniture. 

[joe90]

1 hour ago, jayc89 said:

We tried speaking to a few carpenters

Yes finding good trades people is difficult.

[Dave Jones]

shed build unmortagageble unless very carefully looked after. 

 

Never worth it in our climate and market. 

 

In USA where land is cheap and they get blown over every coupl years make sence to cheaply shed build.

[Kelvin]

42 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

shed build unmortagageble unless very carefully looked after. 

 

Never worth it in our climate and market. 

 

In USA where land is cheap and they get blown over every coupl years make sence to cheaply shed build.

 
83% of new builds in Scotland are timber framed. 

[SteamyTea]

41 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

shed build unmortagageble unless very carefully looked after. 

 

Never worth it in our climate and market. 

 

In USA where land is cheap and they get blown over every coupl years make sence to cheaply shed build.

You talk such bollocks sometimes.

The USA is a huge country, has very different climate zones, and properties prices are not so dissimilar to ours.

$400k against £300k (you can look up the figures on the FRED and ONS).

Median wages in the USA are $365/week, England £672/week.

 

So against what you want to believe, property in the USA is more expensive, depending where you are, the weather may be more extreme, but not many people live in those extreme areas, most live in places with known climate extremes, just like we do.