Experience….

[G and J]

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Steven Wright
 

So, I’m looking to benefit from other peoples’ hindsight.

 

We will be building a stick frame, two storey house, slate pitched roof with solar pv, MVHR, ASHP, UFH, clad in untreated larch and some render.  We will be doing what we can and is sensible ourselves to get it within a budget we are happy to live with.

 

But what is sensible?  We don’t want to take forever but we don’t want to overspend either and perhaps most importantly, we want it built well.

 

Looking back, what is there you think you should have done yourself and didn’t, or that you did do yourself and wish you hadn’t?

[JohnMo]

7 minutes ago, G and J said:

untreated larch and some render

See some recent threads on render staining from wood cladding.

 

Build do what you are comfortable doing, get other to do the stuff you are not. I managed them one trade in, one out, to keep it all manageable.

 

Ground work I got others in for that

Walls I did myself (ICF)

Roof got people in

PV myself and electrician 

All plumping myself

Floor insulation and UFH myself

MVHR myself

Roof insulation by others

All none load bearing internal walls myself 

Plasterboard by others and all taping.

Electric by others 

ASHP myself

Project management myself

 

Happy with the way I did it, wasn't too costly and was completed in a year.

[G and J]

On 22/05/2024 at 11:52, JohnMo said:

See some recent threads on render staining from wood cladding.

 

I will read up, ta for the nod.

 

As for doing only what I’m comfortable doing that’s the thing, I’m dumb enough to think I can do most of it.  If I’m not careful I’ll end up extending the timescales and/or effectively working for thrupence an hour.

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, G and J said:

If I’m not careful I’ll end up extending the timescales and/or effectively working for thrupence an hou

Iwould be happy to be paid anything per hour -with all the time i have put in and damage to the old body 

 if money is an issue and time is secondary  then anything you can do yourself will be like getting paid -or not paying out £25 an hour

 so if you have somewhere to live while you do  it crack  get stuck in

 

Edited May 23 by scottishjohn

[joe90]

On 22/05/2024 at 11:52, JohnMo said:

do what you are comfortable doing, get other to do the stuff you are not.

+1, or do what you know you are good at and get trades in to do what you are not good at. This is what I did, I am good at woodwork so all that was done by me including plumbing, kitchen fitting etc, i am not good at laying bricks/blocks or plastering and not qualified for electrics so those were trades I paid for. It also impacts on timescales but controlled by budget as well. Be honest with yourself about what practically you can do.

[Crofter]

I did everything myself except for the major groundworks, where I hired a digger+driver, and plastering, which I consider a black art! I laboured alongside the sparky, and got a plumber to do the UVC, because I was told that I legally had to. 

 

None of it is rocket science. In a self build, you will take much longer than a professional, because you want it done right.

Basic timber frame work is easy if you are half way competent with a tape measure and a nail gun. Second fix is a lot more fiddly as all your work is on show. I tried to get someone in for that but ended up having to do it all myself. That's one of the reasons I went with painted MDF skirting etc, so I could fill and paint any mistakes I made. 

I designed out complications early on- e.g. no joins in the kitchen worktop, just a few fairly large windows. I decided to go open plan and ended up only having to hang two internal doors.

[Kelvin]

I started off using trades and have ended up doing much of the internals myself. I got sick to the back teeth of the unreliability, incompetence, and damage to our home by some of the trades we used. I’ve found the whole process frustrating, infuriating, and soul destroying at times. We are nearly done and I’ll never have another trade in my home ever again. So my advice do as much as you can yourself and only use trades where you are legally obligated to use them or you genuinely don’t have the skills. 

Edited May 24 by Kelvin

[Jilly]

I struggled too and prefer to have one trade at a time (even though they didn’t always think ahead about other people’s jobs, I tried to) as it’s easier to manage as a novice. 

[G and J]

Thank you all.  
 

My natural way would be to do as much as I could (except plastering which I agree, is a black art), but I fear that would extend timescales unreasonably.  By then we will be in rented accommodation, so extra time has a cost. 
 

We built our current house 33 years ago and we were incredibly lucky with the guys we worked with.  We did the electrics, plumbing, some of the roofing, fitted the floors, the decorating, the rainwear, and generally kept the site tidy and supplied.  
 

That was a rendered, block built house, this time it’s going to be stick built part rendered but mostly larch clad, and they were different days back then. 
 

Then, unglazed windows were built in to the block work all lovely and tight, now it seems everyone just leaves holes for windows to be slotted in later and the inevitable gaps are filled with foam.  Plumbing was all vented and very simple. 
 

So many things to think about, all at once!

[scottishjohn]

I suppose first thing to sort out is the  overal buget

then you can  makedecisions on what you can do -  and if your T/f is going to be cheaper than block --

once you have a shell watertight  it makes diy alot easier  

i would have liked to od itall myself ,butour  agse and size made that impossible

 so most of my work has been  outside  altering the scenery,lanscaping and building walls etc 

do you have planning and a design yet --

that could eat up a lot of time  

once that is done then you can get quotes for what you don,t want to do  and maybe it will all be clearer then

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> But what is sensible?

 

You’re the best judge of that, but some mix of - what skills do you have? what cost savings can you make? what do you like doing? what things are critical to the function and aesthetics of your well-built house and what not (e.g. air tightness is, garden planting maybe not)? what’s the most risky aspects of your build? - you might want experienced trades on those.

 

You can probably save most money easily by careful buying - trades won’t care if they’re simply re-charging you. You can probably control quality and avoid mishaps best by selecting & briefing trades carefully, understanding the detailed work, and being around to keep an eye on progress.

[LSB]

Currently, we are doing everything ourselves, but we are already years in, but we have our existing house and no time constraints.

We have made mistakes, but my husband is, like lots on this site, a perfectionist and we just couldn't find people who wanted to do the work or seemed reliable.

It started with the groundworks, we have 3 companies out to quote and not one of them did, so we just got on with it.

Doing things yourself is very slow so maybe consider what others have said and get a company to build the shell with Timber Frame and get water tight, then it's more straightforward.  So I'm told, we are not there yet.

 

Ignorance is bliss, until you make a mistake and have to go backwards.

 

[G and J]

We’re fortunate in that we’ve got planning permission for all we asked for, though we can’t start till end of August due to a planning condition.  There’s the small matter of wanting to sell our current house first, to fund said build.  😕

 

It’s a narrow plot so we want minimum wall thickness so we’re told that means stick built, and overhead wires across the front of the site pretty much preclude kit builds/sips/icf/etc. (anything that needs lifting kit or boom concrete pouring or the like won’t be possible).

 

Good point re saving cost re the sourcing, I guess that was sort of in the back of our minds without articulating the thought.  And our constant presence on site (a bit like Mr LSB I guess) will hopefully drive the quality.  We can’t massively up the wall insulation but we can work hard on being airtight.  
 

I'm comfortable plumbing (well, vented at least, I’ll continue my research re vented vs unvented), I’m happy with electrics, carpentry, general labouring, etc.  

 

Our next stage is a relaxed planning phase with the architect, and from the output of that we can start getting quotes.   Can’t wait!

[Jilly]

Aerogel insulation might be worth exploring.

[scottishjohn]

if minimumwallthickness is paramount ,then surely SIPS is the way ? 

and dead easy  to do  and will be quick to assemble  and easy to get airtight 

you will not have much latiitude on insularion thickness  as buidling regs will have to be complied with 

[joe90]

6 hours ago, G and J said:

though we can’t start till end of August

 

6 hours ago, G and J said:

Our next stage is a relaxed planning phase with the architect,

End of August is closer than you think in terms of planning and getting stuff in order, crack on……

[G and J]

5 hours ago, Jilly said:

Aerogel insulation might be worth exploring.

Just googled it and it sounds expensive but interesting.  Will call em next week.  Have you used their products?

 

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

if minimumwallthickness is paramount ,then surely SIPS is the way ? 

and dead easy  to do  and will be quick to assemble  and easy to get airtight 

you will not have much latiitude on insularion thickness  as buidling regs will have to be complied with 

I went to the NEC self build show and when I shared our situation the two companies who weren’t just all out salesy types quickly identified that they would not be able to offer a sips based solution. Do peeps erect SIP kits themselves?
 

13 minutes ago, joe90 said:

 

End of August is closer than you think in terms of planning and getting stuff in order, crack on……

Agreed. However our house sale will take rather longer. 

[Crofter]

10 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

if minimumwallthickness is paramount ,then surely SIPS is the way ? 

and dead easy  to do  and will be quick to assemble  and easy to get airtight 

you will not have much latiitude on insularion thickness  as buidling regs will have to be complied with 

 

SIPs will need some sort of machinery to erect, the panels are big and heavy. 

Stick build can be done with just manual labour- I did my place that way, two or three people can lift an entire gable end wall.

[scottishjohn]

15 minutes ago, Crofter said:

 

SIPs will need some sort of machinery to erect, the panels are big and heavy. 

Stick build can be done with just manual labour- I did my place that way, two or three people can lift an entire gable end wall.

they don,t have to be that big

look online and you will see you can buy sips panel blanks all sizes 

 

 like 8x4== two sheets of OSB with polsteyene foam in between --they can be man handled

 

one of many suppliers

https://www.sipsdirect.co.uk/product-category/blank-panels/

[scottishjohn]

9 hours ago, G and J said:

Do peeps erect SIP kits themselves?

  with respect

If you need me to answer that question ,then I am not convinced you have the mind set for a self build 

 

Edited May 27 by scottishjohn

[scottishjohn]

do you have a plan to show us ?

thats was passed for your panning consent?

or do you only have outline consent  and no actual approved plans

 

[G and J]

16 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

  with respect

If you need me to answer that question ,then I am not convinced you have the mind set for a self build 

 

Well, we did ok in 1991.  We took just over 5 months to build, but then we were under the financial cosh as we had two mortgages running and we were right on the limit of what we could fund.  Since then we’ve fully renovated three and done various other projects.

 

I guess I look to norms and trends as guidance.  Every SIP based project I’ve read or heard about used big panels craned in.  If ‘micro SIPs’ are practical where no crane is needed then it would be an option, but presumably there could be a reason why it’s not a common solution, perhaps because of the greater number of joints and the sheer volume of glue needed.  

[Kelvin]

You could hand ball smaller SIP panels in. People use cranes and tele-handlers just because it’s easier and likely safer. I’d stick build anyway. In fact if I was building again I’d stick build regardless of ease of access. 

[G and J]

20 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

You could hand ball smaller SIP panels in. People use cranes and tele-handlers just because it’s easier and likely safer. I’d stick build anyway. In fact if I was building again I’d stick build regardless of ease of access. 

Our architect said stick built as soon as he visited the site.  As Jilly highlighted above there’s new and interesting stuff about now that might mean we can have better insulation than previously available for a given wall thickness.  
 

It’s a bit like careers though, all the big decisions have to be made long before one had all the info!   So a leap of faith and trust in other’s experiences appears the best way forward. 

[Kelvin]

Our walls are very thick for a new build. Over 400mm from the front face of the cladding to the face of the painted wall. Fortunately we didn’t have any space constraints but it still wasn’t easy getting the panels in using a tele-handler.