Button on tiled in toilet cistern not working

[Jilly]

I’m staying at a friend’s, and she said, ‘The button flush on the loo needs a bit of a rattle to work’. 
That was ok for a couple of days, but now it’s kaput. Gulp, broken on my watch.
There’s no sign of an access panel…it’s all beautifully tiled in, with a neat little non functioning button… 

 

Edited May 7 by Jilly

[ProDave]

Then the installer needs shooting.  There should be some kind of access panel,  Nothing from behind in say a cupboard?

[Jilly]

No there’s no sign of anything at all. Maybe that’s why the owner has put up with a wonky button.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Jilly said:

there’s no sign of anything at all.

 

It isn't by any chance, all one access panel?

 

If it's like my concealed systems, the cistern is behind there and linked to the button by a plastic tube the diameter of  a drinking straw. That simply puffs some air and releases the syphon. If the tube comes loose on either end it doesn't work. Maybe the button can be removed very gently. Just maybe the tube will still be loosely attached to the button or visible through the hole.

 

 

[Jilly]

Thank you all, there’s nothing that I can see, it’s all grouted in, so there could be a secret one.
I think I might damage the button by levering it out and the edge of the button looks solid too. Frustrating.

[ToughButterCup]

Kaput eh? You sayin' German engineering is Scheisse? Or wot?

Seen summat like this in The Fatherland. 

• Does the button unscrew? If so Bingo.
• Access to the wall behind (as in the room behind) the assembly : in other words a service void accessible from a room adjacent ?
• Wenn nicht, dann ist hier Alles Quatsch.

If not, sure as Hell a German didn't have anything to do with the  design.

[Jilly]

Yikes, yes, have unscrewed the surround gently, with nasty grating sound. No actual thread is visible, but the inner button is not moving …

 

It’s on an outer wall, no cupboard behind.

Edited May 8 by Jilly

[ToughButterCup]

Wouldn'tcha just luve to talk to the dick'ed who left the system like that.

 

Now, there's an exposed summat or other yes? Is soem sort of push-rod visible? 

[Jilly]

 I can’t get it to come out any further and expose the innards. I’m worried about the bits  dropping behind if I pull too hard, so no, still no internals visible yet😭

Edited May 8 by Jilly

[Temp]

Yes very likely the mechanism will drop in to the wall if it's like ours.

 

Time to find out if those tiles are still available 🙂

[Jilly]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Yes very likely the mechanism will drop in to the wall if it's like ours.

 

Time to find out if those tiles are still available 🙂

I’m worried that had already happpened.
And yep, what an annoying way to install it 😭

[ToughButterCup]

Manchmal können Deutsche Designers wirklich dumm sein. Echt doof.

 

Foto bitte .....  Close-up if you can
 

Edited May 8 by ToughButterCup

[Jilly]

😂English is best 

[Nickfromwales]

There's a plastic lock nut on the back of that, so if you keep messing with it the push button will be dangling by the pneumatic hose and the locknut will be swinging around on it behind the wall / tile.

 

Q: Has anyone actually been behind this and looked PROPERLY for any form of secret / hidden access? 

 

If there defo isn't any, then the fitter is a cock.

[Jilly]

There's definitely nothing obvious, but there might be some secret plumbery thing going on.

[ProDave]

Do some careful and accurate measuring to locate EXACTLY the opposite side of that wall.

 

It might be the lesser of 2 evils is then cut a section of plasterboard out of that wall to give you access.  Much easier to replace the plasterboard and  fill the gaps than replace a tile.  Or better still create a proper access hatch.

[Jilly]

It's not my house, but it's under the window of an upstairs room, so I doubt there's access there...and I doubt it would be practical. 

[JamesPa]

How idiotic. Sadly I've seen this done before in a refurbished public toilet of all places, and I'm not in any way associated with the building trade.

 

If it's plasterboard behind the tiling, could you use a multi-tool to cut simultaneously through the grout of the tile the button is in and the plasterboard behind?  I think that would my go-to approach. 

 

If it's something more solid than plasterboard behind perhaps consider taking the tile out anyway and replacing it with a symmetrically positioned access panel (be 'honest' with it rather than trying to disguise it).

Edited May 8 by JamesPa

[Nickfromwales]

8 hours ago, Jilly said:

but it's under the window of an upstairs room

Often 'fitters' will set the window sill up so it can be removed so you can get access from the top down. Any pics of this?

[Kelvin]

Same happened to a friend of ours. Button push and all tiled in with no access. Ridiculous. They had no option but to carefully cut around the tile grout and then plasterboard. Fortunately they’d kept a pack of the tiles. 

[Jilly]

It all looks as solid as a solid thing. 

 

Edited May 9 by Jilly

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Jilly said:

It all looks as solid as a solid thing. 

Ok, well the tile in the sill is the one I would start with. Least amount of disruption.

 

Then a call to the fitter to say "You, my friend, are a bell-end of the highest disorder. Are you of similar brain-power to a plant? Just asking, for a friend". 

[ToughButterCup]

The guy who fitted that (and it wasn't a woman) was getting his revenge for something.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

tile in the sill is the one I would start with

I have such a cistern, concealed by an mdf window sill. But it is not tiled over and can lifted out very easily.

 

Perhaps a plumber  allowed for this, and then a timber cover was made bh them or another.

Then a tiler with little understanding of the world tiled over everything.

[JamesPa]

4 hours ago, Jilly said:

It all looks as solid as a solid thing. 

 

Oh dear.  It looks like my idea of cutting out the tile and plasterboard behind with a multitool (preserving the tile) might not work, because the tile in question extends above the likely position of the window board.  It still might be worth trying however, once you have cut round three sides and cut through the grout between the with the button and the horizontal one above it, the tile with the button may ease away.  It rather depends on how well the tiler glued it down and how the substrate is interfaced at the corner.  Some care would need to be taken to avoid chipping the horizontal time.

 

You still stand a fighting change IMHO, but it could also go wrong (resulting in a broken tile).  If you do succeed in getting the tile off (with the substrate on which it is mounted) in one piece this way then it will be fairly easy to clean it up and refit it.  If you have just one spare tile then, even if you do break the existing tile, you can refit and nobody will know.  be careful not to saw through the cistern though - ie control the depth of the cut.