SimonCo Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Hello all! I'm Simon from Gloucestershire. We're looking to move house and I've fallen for a gorgeous, massive Victorian detached which could either be a brilliant idea or a really stupid one. (I mean it could be both...) We haven't put in an offer yet because I'm still trying to work out whether it's achievable, so I'm hoping to get some advice to check over potential retrofit plans and budget. I've done the usual DIY but no big projects like this, I've done a fair bit of research and reading but am basically pretty inexperienced. Happy to share more about plans if anyone's interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Post the plans up and what you think needs doing and what you want to do to it. Are you looking to take it on yourself or get people in. Don't underestimate how much of a time sink it will be even if you just PM it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Is it the big old vicarage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Welcome How old is the place, I have had 'Victorian' places, either end of her reign. They were both horrible to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonCo Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 It's not a big old vicarage! So... House is an 1880s three storey with six bedrooms. Single brick construction; no insulation. Like, nothing. Double glazed at least though. Downstairs has (new) boiler and (old) rads. 1st floor, three beds and a bathroom, no CH in bedrooms ("there's a fireplace in each bedroom that they use for heating", says the agent) but rads in bathroom; 2nd floor identical. I'm thinking: Insulate: Insulate roof to 300mm, sheepswool for breathability. Can do this myself. 70m^2, so 50 rolls of 150mm Thermafleece, ~£3k? For the walls though, this is where it starts to get fuzzy for me. The outside is hanging tile cladding on the 1st and 2nd floors. Presumably they're nailed on batons, but I don't know if I can insulate between the tiles and the wall? I'm assuming not worth it, better to go internal to keep the outside character. From what I've read, lime parge coat on top of existing plaster + 100mm of wood fibre + lime plaster would be the most moisture-friendly way to do this, but I guess it depends on the state of the existing walls. I would need to get someone in to do this. Can only guess at outlay, wood fibre is expensive, there's a lot of perimeter to cover and high walls in each room - guesstimate £15-25k? Heat the upstairs: Pull up floorboards and insulate underneath (do this before wall insulation), also run wet UFH on aluminium spreader boards (Wunda Joist) in the bedrooms. I'd get someone in to pull up the boards and notch the joists, then fit the insulation/UFH/floorboards myself. Plumber to install pipework to the bedrooms and connect up UFH. Again pulling a number out of the air, £10-15k for this part. Be more efficient: down the road, if we're using UFH for upstairs heating, an ASHP starts to be more compelling, but it'll need to be a big 'un, so let's say £10k after the grant. Refit the bathrooms: They're horrible. One basic one, one nice one, call it £15-20k the pair. If my numbers are anything close to reality, then I'm looking at £75k of improvements - not including any "surprises". Gulp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeard Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 12 minutes ago, SimonCo said: Can only guess at outlay, wood fibre is expensive, there's a lot of perimeter to cover and high walls in each room - guesstimate £15-25k? Can't guess. Can you measure the gross ext wall area incl. openings and we can make an educated guess. If the original plaster is lime and is not covered in impermeable paint you can use that (augmented where it's 'not there' - between floors, behind skirtings etc). If there's any gypsum I would recommend that you take that off, and *then* do your lime parge coat. When I was doing WF IWI at 100mm it was North of £130/m2 incl basic joinery replacement, and that was quite a few years ago. The reason I say 'Gross' area is that working around and making good an 'interruption' can be as costly as fitting insulation to the same area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Having now lived several years in a near passive house with it's low heating bills and constant comfortable internal temperature, my view of old houses like this has changed considerably. To properly upgrade it will cost a LOT of money. You either upgrade it, or pour lots of money into it every year in heating. I firmly believe that the market value of old inefficient properties like this should be much lower than a well performing house, to reflect either the high heating bills or the work needed to upgrade it. I am not saying don't buy it, but buy it with your eyes open, and I hope you are not the one owning it when the market finally wakes up and people realise poor performing houses really are worth less. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 An advantage is that builders are not much interested. They will have to improve it to building reg standards, you don't So you have a price advantage unless another diyer wants it a lot. I say be pragmatic. Do what is cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonCo Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 4 hours ago, saveasteading said: An advantage is that builders are not much interested. They will have to improve it to building reg standards, you don't So you have a price advantage unless another diyer wants it a lot. I say be pragmatic. Do what is cost effective. Yep, part of the point of this exercise for me is to work out how much to take off the asking price... 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 6 hours ago, SimonCo said: Double glazed at least though Does not mean much, you need to know the overall (glass and frame) U-Value of them, and how well they are fitted. 6 hours ago, SimonCo said: Insulate roof to 300mm, sheepswool for breathability All wool type insulation is breathable, so why spend extra on 'natural' sheep's wool. 6 hours ago, SimonCo said: For the walls though, this is where it starts to get fuzzy for me. Not really, as it will fit in with 6 hours ago, SimonCo said: Pull up floorboards and insulate underneath And probably renewing/reinforcing some joists. 6 hours ago, SimonCo said: UFH/floorboards myself What floor coverings are you going to use? You may find that you need a higher flow temperature, which soon becomes inefficient. 6 hours ago, SimonCo said: wood fibre is expensive Look at creating a cavity and filling will polystyrene beads. There is a myth that old building will be inherently damp, you don't mention the state of gutters, roof, downpipes, ground level. These are probably your biggest source of damp, not lack of insulation or non-lime render (lime vs cement is an on going debate, all I can say is that no one who says that lime is breathable has any numbers to back it up). 6 hours ago, SimonCo said: Refit the bathrooms: They're horrible. One basic one, one nice one, call it £15-20k the pair. Really. You getting @Pocster to design it and @Onoff to fit it? Look into some mechanical ventilation and heat recovery. If you build some stud walls and you are pulling up floors, that is the time to think about it. It is a pig to retrofit. And look at closing off all those chimneys. Edited March 19 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twice round the block Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Judging by your description of the property, there may not be much competition with other potential buyers as it could be a step too far for lots of people with the amount of work involved. Is the property currently occupied? What's the state of electrics like? Take your rose tinted glasses off as I think minimum refurbishment cost will be 150k. and go north from there. Is the rest of the family as enthusiastic as you ? and are they willing to learn new skills and take on a 3 year project? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR10 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Does the layout work for your family? Will you want to put in a downstairs loo, maybe an en-suite or two? New kitchen, full re-wire, etc.? Costs could easily spiral once you start. Definitely need a bit more homework on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonCo Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 Thanks all for the advice - definitely more to think about. I came here for a reality check and definitely got one! I suspect we're going to end up passing on this house. There are always others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 18 minutes ago, SimonCo said: I suspect we're going to end up passing on this house. There are always others Build your own. A decade of hope, followed by decades of regret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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