Oceanjules Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, Moonshine said: hope it gets sorted, just a thought, do you have any photo from the inside of the room of the skylight area and the opening. Also the architectural plans, it it was really a 5.6m sky light it looks like the dimension of the room underneath is only just bigger than that! Yes. I do have pictures and videos from the inside. It seems like that surveyor measured wall to wall instead of measuring the upstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Just now, Oceanjules said: Yes. I do have pictures and videos from the inside. It seems like that surveyor measured wall to wall instead of measuring the upstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, Oceanjules said: Yes. I do have pictures and videos from the inside. It seems like that surveyor measured wall to wall instead of measuring the upstand. Hold on is the room width 5.6m? If it is that is a monumental f$%k on their part it's hilarious (sorry for your situation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, Moonshine said: Hold on is the room width 5.6m? If it is that is a monumental f$%k on their part it's hilarious (sorry for your situation) I know right? I’m not entirely sure, will check later. For them to say 30 years of experience is the just full of arrogance. Everyone makes mistakes no matter how experienced the person is. It’s pouring down where I am and I had the temporary roofing removed because I timed it with the skylight installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) You couldn’t get a 5.6m skylight on the roof. Their argument that the guy has been doing it for 30 years so wouldn’t make the mistake is a non-starter because a mistake has been made. In fact their whole response is non-sensical as nothing has been made bigger or smaller. I would ask them to attend site to demonstrate where they measured it from to arrive at 5.6m given they are arguing it was correct at the time he did the survey. For that to be true you would have had to have made the hole smaller again which you clearly haven’t. I reckon the mistake isn’t the surveyor’s it’s more likely a typo from his report to the fabrication process. As for the legal position of you signing it off. You’ll need to seek advice from a solicitor but it’s not as cut and dried as the company is suggesting just because you signed it off if their surveyor made a mistake. What I don’t quite understand is why you didn’t query the size difference when they re-quoted for the bigger canopy given it’s clearly marked on the drawing at 5000mm. I get that stuff is easy to miss when there’s a lot going on. Edited February 8 by Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Unfortunately I experienced this kind of survey error a few times. On the most part, we managed to work around the mistake, but it did cause me to look into the legal position significantly. Unfortunately, unless you contract with someone specifically to survey something, e.g. when you commission a measured survey, I think your legal position is weak. The window company will rely on their Ts and Cs which will say that you are signing off on what they supply and they can only supply what you sign off on. So it's his mistake, but the paper trail will exculpate him. Towards the end of my build, after having had this error twice, I started to check each surveyor's measurements. It was laborious, but did sometimes spot fairly significant mistakes. I would try to put pressure on the supplier to meet you half way on the amelioration costs. Luckily the product they have supplied is too big, not too small, so there shouldn't be any materials wasted really, just a question of cutting the glass down and remaking the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) I had a similar but financially less significant mistake. I'd asked for a mix of white windows on part of the house and grey external and white internal in another part. When the windows arrived they were all grey external and white internal. When I'd checked the order, the description was 'windows grey/white' which I'd taken to mean as a mix of grey and white windows. It actually meant all the windows would be grey external and white internal. (I should note, I did not check any of the measurements because my view on that is measuring windows is done in a certain way - usually it is to take three measurements, use the smallest and deduct 10mm - but manufacturers and installers may vary and how should I know that as a homeowner?) In the end I split the cost of replacing the frames I wanted in white, which, pre-Covid, was only £150 of the £300 total cost. I probably would have won in a court case if I'd refused to pay, because the surveyor checked and said he had written down what I'd wanted. But that is hassle and I appreciated his honesty after he checked his notes. Soooo... I think it is their mistake. Seems to be entirely theirs except for the 'sign off', but to avoid a court case it'd be better to come to an arrangement for the window to be modified. Edited February 8 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 @Moonshine - how did you do that measuring trick if you don't mind me asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 35 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said: @Moonshine - how did you do that measuring trick if you don't mind me asking? Printed the jpg as PDF, opened the PDF in 'PDF Xchange editor' which allows you to add dimensions, i changed the scale of the dimension too to match those on the drawings then added more dimensions using that 'custom' scale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, Adsibob said: Unfortunately I experienced this kind of survey error a few times. On the most part, we managed to work around the mistake, but it did cause me to look into the legal position significantly. Unfortunately, unless you contract with someone specifically to survey something, e.g. when you commission a measured survey, I think your legal position is weak. The window company will rely on their Ts and Cs which will say that you are signing off on what they supply and they can only supply what you sign off on. So it's his mistake, but the paper trail will exculpate him. Towards the end of my build, after having had this error twice, I started to check each surveyor's measurements. It was laborious, but did sometimes spot fairly significant mistakes. I would try to put pressure on the supplier to meet you half way on the amelioration costs. Luckily the product they have supplied is too big, not too small, so there shouldn't be any materials wasted really, just a question of cutting the glass down and remaking the unit. Unfortunately, they can’t make the glass smaller as it’s filled with gas or something to make it” airless”. So it’s basically rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Oceanjules said: Unfortunately, they can’t make the glass smaller as it’s filled with gas or something to make it” airless”. So it’s basically rubbish. Surely it can be dismantled and cut, reassembled and then refilled with gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 11 hours ago, Adsibob said: Surely it can be dismantled and cut, reassembled and then refilled with gas? That was I originally asked them but apparently it’s not doable. I don’t know anything about glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 21 hours ago, Oceanjules said: I know right? I’m not entirely sure, will check later. For them to say 30 years of experience is the just full of arrogance. Everyone makes mistakes no matter how experienced the person is. It’s pouring down where I am and I had the temporary roofing removed because I timed it with the skylight installation. What always the dimensions of the room below? At least it's only a small section that needs a temp roof, a 5m x .9m one Financially how do the delays affect you? Thier cock up can be costing you money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 4 minutes ago, Moonshine said: What always the dimensions of the room below? At least it's only a small section that needs a temp roof, a 5m x .9m one Financially how do the delays affect you? Their cock up can be costing you money... Thankfully it’s only a small area. The builder had put something on top of it to make it a little bit waterproof. currently, it’s not costing us anything as we were meant to tackle the downstairs in 2 months time to give the owner a bit of time to gather some budget. It’s quite involved on the other side of the house (kitchen, bathroom, pantry, utility and knock through from the extension to the kitchen). it’s gonna cost us if they’ve decided they won’t pay a penny for the replacement. 😱 still haven’t heard from them. They are probably asking an advise from their solicitor measurement is attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 12 hours ago, Adsibob said: Surely it can be dismantled and cut, reassembled and then refilled with gas? This never ever happens. In the skip and replace with new. Rooflights are often toughened and / or laminated, so even if you wanted to endlessly faff around it would not be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 9 minutes ago, Oceanjules said: it’s gonna cost us if they’ve decided they won’t pay a penny for the replacement. 😱 still haven’t heard from them. They are probably asking an advise from their solicitor measurement is attached So a gap of the actual hole of 500mm either end, compared to a 200mm gap either end based on their measurements. Any photo's that you have from underneath that show the hole prior to the surveyors visit will show a large gap to the side walls which visually will be much more than 200mm, and there is a clear reference that the skylight lines up with the reveals of the sliding door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 7 minutes ago, Moonshine said: So a gap of the actual hole of 500mm either end, compared to a 200mm gap either end based on their measurements. Any photo's that you have from underneath that show the hole prior to the surveyors visit will show a large gap to the side walls which visually will be much more than 200mm, and there is a clear reference that the skylight lines up with the reveals of the sliding door. This is the built up of the flat roof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 Just now, Oceanjules said: This is the built up of the flat roof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 Just now, Oceanjules said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 13 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: This never ever happens. In the skip and replace with new. Rooflights are often toughened and / or laminated, so even if you wanted to endlessly faff around it would not be possible. That’s what I was told 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 10 minutes ago, Oceanjules said: This is the built up of the flat roof Quote You then updated the upstand to sort out the bow and to give the correct pitch, and was obviously made it smaller at the same time. Yeah, ain't no way you have made that roof light space bigger / smaller for shits and giggles from this point onwards, those doubled up joists ain't easy to mess with! The surveyor / supplier has got some explaining to do. On my project i have measured and ordered made to measure a large number of expensive things (insulated garage door, 4 flights of oak stairs, glass balustrades, external steel stairs), every time its very worrying until it actually arrives on site and fits (ish). I check, re check, have someone else check as i know people especially me make mistakes, and i made a fairly costly one early doors (two large lintels) which burnt me. However its me doing the measurements and its my fault if its wrong, to pay someone else to do the measurements (surveyor) its on them as you are paying extra to do the job and to take that risk away. I would still look at the wording of thing you signed to make sure that you don't have any liability there, but why would you want to double check or question a surveyor that is their job and has 30 years experience to your own? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 3 minutes ago, Moonshine said: Yeah, ain't no way you have made that roof light space bigger / smaller for shits and giggles from this point onwards, those doubled up joists ain't easy to mess with! The surveyor / supplier has got some explaining to do. On my project i have measured and ordered made to measure a large number of expensive things (insulated garage door, 4 flights of oak stairs, glass balustrades, external steel stairs), every time its very worrying until it actually arrives on site and fits (ish). I check, re check, have someone else check as i know people especially me make mistakes, and i made a fairly costly one early doors (two large lintels) which burnt me. However its me doing the measurements and its my fault if its wrong, to pay someone else to do the measurements (surveyor) its on them as you are paying extra to do the job and to take that risk away. I would still look at the wording of thing you signed to make sure that you don't have any liability there, but why would you want to double check or question a surveyor that is their job and has 30 years experience to your own? Thank you. I have video footage as well but I haven’t got time to go through them as so much things are going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 When this surveyor came round to measure it, he was the only one who came on site without someone to recheck his measurements. The company has so much trust with this surveyor. I have attached a bit of t&c. Again, why would they always have to put the liability to the customer when it comes to measurement. As you mentioned, it’s their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 i am going to play devils advocate here, could that last sentence may be a get out for them? Quote where a trade contract has requested a survey the customer must sign and agree to the specification on the survey It sounds that you are doing work for a customer, and are not a domestic client but a trade client / contract. Did the end customer sign and agree the specification of the survey? Legal talk isn't my strong point, and there may be something her than clears them of their liabilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanjules Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 8 minutes ago, Moonshine said: i am going to play devils advocate here, could that last sentence may be a get out for them? It sounds that you are doing work for a customer, and are not a domestic client but a trade client / contract. Did the end customer sign and agree the specification of the survey? Legal talk isn't my strong point, and there may be something her than clears them of their liabilities? The client didn’t sign the contract. The end customer would be signing it without checking the specs as she’s an elderly. She wouldn’t know any technical side of it. Looks like they’re gonna get away with it reading that last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now