Roof Pitch, Eaves, and Ceiling Height on Landing / First Floor

[Gaf]

Hopefully our last decision to make on the construction drawings before sending out to tender 🤞

 

I hope I'm using the correct terminology for this.

 

With the planning drawings converted to construction drawings, we've noticed the 'beginning' of the internal eaves (hope I'm using the right term) is approx. 16cm lower than expected. We expected approx. 194cm but it's coming in at 178cm on the construction drawings. Not a huge different, but I'm 6'1" (185cm) and I'm wondering will it feel a bit cramped walking down it, and possibly a little cramped in the bathroom and en-suite upstairs as this internal eave will come in on those rooms.

 

With the construction drawings, my head clearance will be ~35cm from the centre point of the landing hallway. With the planning drawings, it was expected to be ~51cm.

 

We've no similar house to gauge this against. I'm wondering if anyone may have anything similar and could advise on how they find the internal eaves coming in this much?

 

Attached image shows, from left to right:

1. Construction drawing section
2. Construction drawing with silhouette of someone my height
3. Planning drawing overlaid on the construction drawing, with red area showing space taken up by construction drawings that was not taken up in the planning drawings
4. Planning drawing overlaid with silhouette of someone my height

[ProDave]

Whatever you do, you need to make SURE you achieve 2 metre headroom above the stairs and on the landing.  Check with your BCO I believe this is measured on the centreline of the stairs and landing so may be allowed to be lower at the edges.

[ToughButterCup]

In one room, I have to stoop to walk next to our bed.  (6'3"). So I don't walk there very often. The most I do on that side of the room is to make the bed, and since I'm bending over to do so, 'taint much of a problem.

Yes, I bump  my head once in a while - but where there's no sense, there's no feeling.

 

How often will you use that landing at full stretch? And what does the BCO think of the issue (may not be relevant yet, but will be soon) ?

 

[Gaf]

@ProDave Cheers. Sorry should have said I'm based in Rep of Ireland but that got me checking our regulations here. The reg document provides only the attached and it relates only to habitable rooms. Our 'top' ceiling height is 2.55m which is above the required 2.4m.

 

@ToughButterCup Do you know the measurements of the wall / ceiling where you whack your noggin? The landing goes down to our two children's rooms. I'm likely to walk down it at least twice a day while they're young (one 18 months, the other is cooking at the moment).

 

Something about the angle still puts me off a bit. I might see if it's possible to change the pitch of the roof just slightly and gain even 10cm more on the outside-internal wall height and bring it up to 188cm (maybe 190 if it's possible). Had a look at our planning drawings and they didn't include specific measurements for ceilings other than the max height of 2.55m and they didn't specify the pitch of the roof either, so as long as we keep the ridge height as specified then we might be good!

[joe90]

33 minutes ago, Gaf said:

I might see if it's possible to change the pitch of the roof just slightly and gain even 10cm more on the outside-internal wall height and bring it up to 188cm (maybe 190 if it's possible).

I did just that on my build, only a few degrees made the difference I wanted, plus I don’t suspect fir a moment they will accurately measure your ridge height on completion 🤷‍♂️ ( next door was 1200mm above plans and nothing was said!!!!)

[Conor]

We raised our wall plate up 150mm at the last minute, but left ridge the same. Reduced the roof angle by about 3⁰ but hardly noticeable. Extra height at the eaves (only 1400mm) makes a huge difference.

[Gaf]

@joe90@Conor Cheers lads, gives me more of a sense that I should pursue a change before sending out to tender. I can't see an issue since all that changes is around 12cm and that detail isn't on the planning drawings and neither is the pitch specified. Fingers crossed...

[Bozza]

Hi @Gaf

 

i think the term is internal comb height certainly that’s what it was referred to by my builder.

 

my roof pitch is 45 degrees and the internal comb height is 137cm throughout.  In our rooms this is not a problem for example where we have chest of drawers, bed headboards, etc.  in context of me being tallest person in-house at 172cm.    We also have several dormer windows and some veluxes which obviously impacts positively on this.
 

Obviously in a room nobody stands up against the wall with toes at the skirting board unless they’re mental.

your dilemma however is a 120cm hallway which inevitably requires you to be close to that roof angle.  
 

in one our rooms we have a set of drawers, the front of which if projected up creates an artificial comb height same as yours.  To the bemusement of my wife I then stood on 13cm of books and measured out 120 cm from front these drawers to replicate what you would have.

 

firstly, the height is fine functionally but with 120 wide if your hallway is long, without natural light it would in my opinion feel tight narrow and low.  Your eyeline would be at the roof angle.  I’m not saying a 120 hallways is too narrow but in context of comb height it could be.

 

clearly raising the comb height will improve this but other options perhaps to move the hallway wall out by even 10-20cm.  Even if this makes the rooms slightly smaller.  also veluxes here would help immeasurably as this gives you en extra 20-30cm from eyeline.

 

Can you post your plans.  If your hallway is just a metre or so long you should be ok but if long and no windows….

 

 

 

[Gaf]

@Bozza Cheers for doing the experiment. Hopefully your wife hasn't been in touch with services to get you assessed 😄

 

We've dealt with two architect crews, one for planning and another for construction drawings, and there's an iffyness about copyright and sharing plans - 🤷‍♀️ - but I've attached a section of the first floor showing the hallway anyway.

 

Annoyingly we've only noticed this as an issue at the construction drawing stage, with the drawings finalised (bar this issue). Let's just say my wife isn't keen on changing anything at this point and we had builders lined up to get tenders to this coming week and possibly get going in January. So this is one I'll have to park and live with. There's really only the 3.6m stretch along bedroom 1 and that has a dormer window with a ceiling height of 2.55m.

 

I think it'll be OK. That side of the house is the two kids bedrooms and the main bathroom for them to share. The left side is our side.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Gaf

[Bozza]

Think about your eyelines if what you’ll see.

 

The windows will help a lot but I think think turning to the right at the top of the stairs could feel tight as you’ll need to walk into the middle of that hallway before turning right due to the wall at top of stairs,  as your eyeline will be in line with the comb height, but those windows there will help a lot.   When they’re at the studwork stage you could just mock up using large pieces of cardboard or whatever, and it should be easy to pull the bed 1 studwork in just a bit if you need to when you see it at 3d and IF it is an issue, as it may not be in real life.  Bed 1 reducing from 4.1 to 3.9 could make a big difference to hallway but remains a nice size and shape bedroom.  If you did do this it would also let more light into that little 1x1 area in front of the bedroom to the right.   As a I say you’ll be able assess in 3D and change accordingly during the build IF it is a huge problem, almost certainly at no extra cost or delay.

 

Just a tiny observation being a bit OCD but have you considered centring the top of stairs window with the staircase as it only needs to move a smidgeon (technical term) to do so.  

 

Also would strongly recommend built in wardrobes it appears as if that’s not your intention.    We made some good choices and some bad ones for our self build.  Built in wardrobes was definitely on the good list.

 

Good decision to have your bedroom at other end of house to kids, and love what I assume to be a laundry chute, something I wish we’d done.

hope everything works out ok for you.

 

[Gaf]

@Bozza Great spot with the window aligning with the stairs... Won't go to architect to change the drawing at this stage but will definitely mention that to the builder.

 

You've made me think it might be worth moving the second window over a little, so the right edge of the window aligns with the wall between bedroom 1 and bedroom 2 (not on drawing). Might just ensure better light into that 1m2 area.

 

That's a great idea to take a look when in the build process. We're switching to solid block upstairs, so I might need to mock it up sooner! We currently have an 85cm wide landing hallway with ceiling of 2.4m, and I mocked up the angle using a tape measure and it was manageable as a transition space, so hopefully the extra 35cm will suffice.

 

We initially thought of built in wardrobes. My wife mentioned hating them as a kid and it restricted how she and her sister could move their bedroom furniture around when they had notions to do this. Said she wanted to let our two have as much option to re-arrange their rooms as possible so removed them... What were the pros you've found with the built in wardrobes? I'll give her a heart attack going back with any changes at this stage but sure still worth knowing!

 

Yeah, herself wanted to chute. Goes straight down into the utility room downstairs. Have heard horror stories of kids getting stuck in them, but plan to get it lockable.

 

[ProDave]

7 minutes ago, Gaf said:

We're switching to solid block upstairs,

WHY?

[Gaf]

47 minutes ago, ProDave said:

WHY?

 

@ProDave In short, we're at burnout stage with all the decisions. We had issues with the first architect crew taking ages to get the planning drawings done, constantly missed deadlines, making errors on drawings we had to highlight etc. New architect is super efficient but made some unrequested changes to the plans when converting to construction drawings, and it took more energy to revert back. Also made certain changes that led us down paths to explore if they were good or bad changes.

 

When it came to the stud walls upstairs, we noticed the proposed approach wasn't aligned with many recommendations here (e.g. weren't overlapping, were single plasterboard, had the plasterboard on each side of the wall attached to the same stud, etc.). I spent some time reviewing options, posted here, and frankly hit burnout with the idea of going back to the architects to ask them to put in the stud walls I thought seemed most appropriate (based on advice from here).

 

We have family who went solid block in a similar sized house and swear by the sound proofing. We have family with stud walls and they hate them, but they've no idea of the structure of the stud walls so likely unfair to blanket rule out stud walls, but I have no more energy to explore it. So we went with what we could 'test' i.e. could go to family house with solid block and could hear the sound proofing.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Gaf

[ETC]

As mentioned before check you have full headroom at the landing at the top of the staircase. I presume that’s a dormer window you have which - if the rafters and ceiling joists overlap at the eaves should give you head height.

[Bozza]

What were the pros you've found with the built in wardrobes?
 

1.  They maximise the storage space -v- equivalent footprint of a wardrobe

2.  They are cheaper -v- buying them and paying VAT

3.  They look more streamlined than a standalone wardrobe.

4.   When your drawers break and need replacing you don’t have to replace the wardrobe, assuming you want matching furniture.

 

There will be some downsides for some, but your wife’s point is valid, in terms of flexibility, but looking at your plans the bedrooms will have slope one side so it’s likely they’re is only one wall a wardrobe can go on in any case.

 

I think moving the second window down is a good idea to give light and more space in that little 1sqm corridor bit.

 

But I think I’ve noticed another issue here unless I’ve been hit with the stupid stick.  The family bathroom door will need to be a rather silly & very low 178 cm not to hit the angled ceiling , because the hinged side is close to the wall and you probably don’t want to hinge it the other way into the room.    If too late to change design -  a sliding door, or move the door south is your only solution.  Surely whoever did the drawings flagged this to you?

Appreciate it sound like you’re at the end of your tether with your design but far better to sort it all out now.
 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Bozza

[Gaf]

So for anyone in a similar position (in Ireland anyway). Got word the the pitch can't be changed without re-submitting the planning application and there's no chance we're doing that.

 

So don't rely on the planning drawings to indicate ceiling height and make sure you ask your architect/engineer/designer what the construction heights will be.

 

Was always wondering what the thing with our house would be that I wish we did differently. Might have found it before it's even built 😆🤣