New build cabling and HA

[PaulD]

Posted this on avforums so apologies to anyone who's on both forums -

 

I have a large 5 bed new build approaching first fix, I did my last project about 7 years ago but I'm sure things have moved on and I'm a little out of touch, fyi my last project I used Fibaro HC2 which has done the job but probably ready for a change. So from a cabling/list of needs -

Coax to every TV (does anyone actually use coax these days !?)
2 x CAT6 to every TV and 1 x CAT6 for each PoE camera location
Unifi wifi
Home Assistant ? looking for integration with lights, blinds, door locks, gate, MHVR, heating, Aircon, Sonos & other AV
I'm going to be having A LOT of plastered in LED strips for primary and shadow lighting
CCTV was thinking Hikvision
Relays and sensors Shelly ?
Alexa for voice control
In ceiling speakers for sonos ?
Last time I used Van Damme 2.5" speaker cable, I have lots of long runs, is this overkill ? I'm listening mainly to house music rather than classical !

Tempted by Luctron, Loxone etc but put off by cost, and being tied into their products like the blinds, which I already have a supplier for.

I'm a great believer in "keeping things simple" ... if that's possible with Home Automation ! ... suggestions welcome please ?

[FuerteStu]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the coax.  I haven't had a plug in aerial in 5 years now, and only ever once thought I needed one (turns out I didn't, I used the xbox to stream itv live) 

 

The one thing you haven't mentioned is main lighting. 

 

I take twin and earth to the switch so there's a neutral there, then take a 3 core and earth up to the light fitting so there's a permanent live alongside the switch (or two switched lives depending on lights arrangement. 

 

This caters for just about every type of smart light fitting on the market.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, PaulD said:

Home Assistant ? looking for integration with lights, blinds, door locks, gate, MHVR, heating, Aircon, Sonos & other AV

Not sure you need to complicate MVHR with HA. Mines been running at a set speed for the last year, occasionally boosts manually if we have some smelly cooking.

 

1 hour ago, PaulD said:

I'm a great believer in "keeping things simple"

From all the things you want to automate, not sure you 'really want' it simple. Simple is light switches, door keys and possibly remote switching of blinds and gates.

 

1 hour ago, PaulD said:

going to be having A LOT of plastered in LED strips

What happens is 5 to 10 years when you need to start replacing strips?

[markharro]

3 hours ago, FuerteStu said:

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the coax. 

But surely if you want to watch all the Freeview channels live you need an aerial and coax? So the question when the hell is Freeview going to offer full live TV over broadband?

[FuerteStu]

10 hours ago, markharro said:

But surely if you want to watch all the Freeview channels live you need an aerial and coax? So the question when the hell is Freeview going to offer full live TV over broadband?

What channels? 

 

most of the big channels stream live on the apps, and the other channels that are just showing repeats, those programs are online in other places. 

 

[Gone West]

45 minutes ago, FuerteStu said:

What channels? 

I should imagine it's a generational thing. We watch Talking Pictures probably more than 50% of the time and wouldn't dream of watching Netflix etc.

[markharro]

Yes I think iplayer does but I dont think ITV/STV? At least the last time I tried to watch the rugby live I couldnt see the option! And our TV for some weird reason does not have C4 catchup - does that show live C4?

 

thanks

[FuerteStu]

3 minutes ago, markharro said:

Yes I think iplayer does but I dont think ITV/STV? At least the last time I tried to watch the rugby live I couldnt see the option! And our TV for some weird reason does not have C4 catchup - does that show live C4?

 

thanks

Depends on the platform.. That's the issue I had. The TV app wouldn't stream live channels, but the Xbox itv app did! 

 

All4 often has programs in demand before they are shown on live

[FuerteStu]

7 minutes ago, Gone West said:

I should imagine it's a generational thing. We watch Talking Pictures probably more than 50% of the time and wouldn't dream of watching Netflix etc.

Most of these channels can be viewed in the TV web browser. (you can use a wireless mouse & keyboard to control it) Or because the films are out of licence, on free streaming apps like crackle or popcorn. 

[MikeSharp01]

14 hours ago, FuerteStu said:

I take twin and earth to the switch so there's a neutral there, then take a 3 core and earth up to the light fitting so there's a permanent live alongside the switch (or two switched lives depending on lights arrangement. 

 

This caters for just about every type of smart light fitting on the market.

What if the switch does not feed the light directly. I would have thought that 3 core and earth everywhere in a radial system would be a good option.

[IanR]

ITVX has just started Live channels. More 4 streams the C4 channels Live also.

 

Due for launch next year is Freely, which will be Freeview/FreeSat channels streamed without an aerial.

 

15 hours ago, PaulD said:

Tempted by Luctron, Loxone etc but put off by cost, and being tied into their products like the blinds, which I already have a supplier for.

 

You're not tied to Loxone's own products. Although, if planning to go with some/all 24v lighting it may be less painful to stick with their lighting and power supplies. I had all sorts of trouble matching 3rd party power supplies to 3rd part 24v lighting.

 

Loxone is competitive on price, but can get expensive if you get carried away.

 

For me I avoided separate controllers for UFH (heat & cool), Roof vents, MVHR, external blinds and use Loxone for my alarm (can't be used for police/fire connection) which went some way to offsetting the initial outlay for the Loxone kit. But, then you start adding motion sensors (with light sensors) in all rooms and touch switches with temp sensors and costs do start to mount up.

 

You may want more than 2 CAT6 to some TV's. ie. for games consoles, active speakers, android boxes etc. I'd also stick PoE to at least one position for a landline (VOIP) phone base station. Although having said that I've just switched to a Wi-Fi VOIP handset and that's very good, but would be more expensive if you want multiple handsets.

Edited October 1, 2023 by IanR

[markharro]

16 minutes ago, IanR said:

Due for launch next year is Freely, which will be Freeview/FreeSat channels streamed without an aerial.

Thanks - this is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for. Ok I think I can now safely bin the rooftop aerial idea

[FuerteStu]

9 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

What if the switch does not feed the light directly. I would have thought that 3 core and earth everywhere in a radial system would be a good option.

No need to take a switched live to other rooms though. Only a live and neutral from room to room, and 3 core up to the lights (pendants/Downlights/wall lights etc) 

[joth]

On 01/10/2023 at 09:15, IanR said:

You're not tied to Loxone's own products. Although, if planning to go with some/all 24v lighting it may be less painful to stick with their lighting and power supplies. I had all sorts of trouble matching 3rd party power supplies to 3rd part 24v lighting

I've done 3 Loxone installs now, never used a single blind or light fitting made my Loxone and not had any compatibility issue adding 3rd party ones. Biggest issue is actually the lighting suppliers insisting I use their inferior mains-dimmed drivers when I can source better option at lower price. 

Anyway yeah 24v lighting has a general lack of options out there  but I don't see this means a need to lock into loxones own products.

Dali fittings work excellently fwiw