MCS express concern as Octopus drops accreditation requirement from Smart Export Guarantee

[Adsibob]

https://www.current-news.co.uk/mcs-express-concern-as-octopus-drops-accreditation-requirement-from-smart-export-guarantee/

[ToughButterCup]

  Quote

 

....

All that Octopus now require is confirmation of DNO notification under EREC G98 (or permission under EREC G99) and for the applicant to "confirm that you [i.e. the applicant] are satisfied the generation asset has been installed by a competent professional."

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Chris Roberts Independent technical consultant and expert witness in the Clean Energy Industry. Solar, Battery Storage, EV, Heat Pumps  (downloaded 20/08/2023)

 

No, Mr Roberts, that isn't the case. 

Evidence?

 

This email to me on application for an Export Tariff with Octopus for a  non-MCS instal

 

 

 

[JohnMo]

It's all rubbish politics. Job protection....

 

Anyone can export, with G98 or G99 etc.  It's just the point of being paid or otherwise. Nothing changes with the system installed or the amounts exported - just the payment zero or something.

[gc100]

I just don’t get the MSC thing - it’s just a pure rip off. I don’t have MSC installed PV, yet day in and day out I export electricity to the grid. I just don’t get paid. How’s a MSC install any safer!?

[JohnMo]

  On 20/08/2023 at 21:15, gc100 said:

How’s a MSC install any safer!?

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It's not!

[ProDave]

Yes just sour grapes from MCS as they can see their cartel collapsing and losing it's previously protected status as a monopoly.

 

As above, anyone can connect a PV system to the grid, so it is not a "safety" issue.  It is pure politics that until now you could only get paid for export if you pay the monopoly lots of money.

[SteamyTea]

  On 20/08/2023 at 21:15, gc100 said:

How’s a MSC install any safer!?

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Because it is more than just electrical safety.

As part of the installation, the installation company is meant to get a structural survey done and signed of.

The a lot of equipment is also from an approved list.

Then they have a complaints procedure, not just on the quality of workmanship, but also on electrical production.

 

Now I am not saying that in every MCS installation, every rule is adhered to, and there are never any problems, but there is a system.

Using the car analogy, how would we feel if we could self certify our own vehicle safety every year?  I may be able to as I studied automotive engineering, but I am not sure my sister could, even though she has been driving for longer.

 

[dpmiller]

  On 21/08/2023 at 06:28, SteamyTea said:

Using the car analogy, how would we feel if we could self certify our own vehicle safety every year?  I may be able to as I studied automotive engineering, but I am not sure my sister could, even though she has been driving for longer.

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But in GB, the mechanic that does your MoT isn't special or different, and how often is his work inspected by VOSA or whoever?

[SteamyTea]

  On 21/08/2023 at 06:46, dpmiller said:

But in GB, the mechanic that does your MoT isn't special or different

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Does a course to get qualified to do the testing.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-testing-guide

 

[dpmiller]

  On 21/08/2023 at 07:31, SteamyTea said:

Does a course to get qualified to do the testing.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-testing-guide

 

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Looks like it's the manager that get's trained, not the tester?

 

"A DVSA approved MOT Managers course that covers testing responsibilities, administrative arrangements, quality systems, disciplinary and appeal processes must be attended for each AE by:

    An AE Principal for the AE
    The AE Designated Manager for that AE

"

[SteamyTea]

  On 21/08/2023 at 07:39, dpmiller said:

Looks like it's the manager that get's trained, not the tester?

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Maybe.

The point is, and I am not supporting MCS in any way, that we really don't want any Tom, Dick or Harry connecting up whatever they want want, whenever they want, with any equipment they want.

We have a few people that come on here that think they can connect a larger than the generic 4 kW_p system without informing the DNO, because they are going to use all their power themselves (or variations on that theme).

There has to be some quality control.  If we think that MCS installers attract cowboys, just wait till they are not needed.

[joe90]

Surely it’s the DNOs responsibility to make sure any connection is safe (as far as the network is concerned) and personal safety (home and people) the home owners responsibility, insurance compatible. I am a believer in tested and compliant kit (kite mark.?) but not big brother making things unaffordable. If I were to have PV I would like to install it myself but not adverse to a “sign off/inspection by a qualified person at a reasonable cost.

[SteamyTea]

  On 21/08/2023 at 08:15, joe90 said:

not adverse to a “sign off/inspection by a qualified person at a reasonable cost.

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That is the key point.

Maybe MCS needs to offer this a service, after assessing their own installation practices thoroughly.

 

[Dillsue]

  On 21/08/2023 at 08:15, joe90 said:

Surely it’s the DNOs responsibility to make sure any connection is safe (as far as the network is concerned) and personal safety (home and people) the home owners responsibility,

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The DNO does make sure the grid is safe by insisting only ENA compliant kit is connected. Home owner is responsible for personal safety including that of the linesmen working on the grid where any hazard comes from the home owners premises, on their side of the service fuse/meter. See National Terms of Connection.

 

[joe90]

  On 21/08/2023 at 17:51, Dillsue said:

Home owner is responsible for personal safety including that of the linesmen working on the grid where any hazard comes from the home owners premises, on their side of the service fuse/meter.

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I wonder what kind of hazard any approved kit could give to the network?

[SteamyTea]

  On 21/08/2023 at 17:57, joe90 said:

I wonder what kind of hazard any approved kit could give to the network?

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Imagine that someone reconfigured the maximum voltage that the inverter is limited to.

This was a popular 'trick' if there was a fair bit of local PV on the line.

Easy enough to do on some inverters.

An islanding systems could probably be wired up incorrectly so that it keeps the DNOs line live, even on approved kit.

Now a good electrician should know how to wire something up, buy a bad one might not and an enthusiastic amateur may not even know about any of the rules.  Pretty sure we had to put someone straight on here about it recently.

 

The trouble is that many people will see 'MCS not needed' as anything can be connected.

I will connect a petrol generator if the price is right.

[Dillsue]

  On 21/08/2023 at 17:57, joe90 said:

I wonder what kind of hazard any approved kit could give to the network?

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Highly unlikely to cause any hazards, but connecting type tested kit to manufacturers instructions isnt the problem.

 

There was a video posted in the PV section a few days ago showing how to hook up an EV for a home cooked V2H set up in the US. I think someone in the UK was taking jnspiration from it? Not far into the video the guy shows his distribution board/consumer unit with 2 separate incoming supplies, one for his "off grid" V2H set up and one for the grid connection. No interlocking between to 2 breakers so both could be on at the same time connecting the home cooked mains V2H to the grid. The guy knew he should have them interlocked and even said he might "put a piece of wire between them" or "3D print something", presumably to cook up a home grown interlock.

 

That's where the problem will likely lie if people think the absence of MCS means things have been deregulated. Be good to see Octopus implement a chargeable inspection before they accept a non MCS system for export